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My experience taking Tesla to court about FSD
- Thread starter edb49
- Start date
As mentioned this is a thread on the UK subforum about bringing claims against Tesla in the UK, so UK law is germane.
I'm by no means an expert but I think these cases turn on people being induced to buy FSD - the option - under false pretenses. Someone buying a car with FSD already on it from an indie dealer would probably have a harder time bringing a case against Tesla because they have no contractual relationship with them in these circumstances. It would be difficult to quantify the loss in such cases as well, if the car is purchased used.
A customer might have a claim against the dealer they bought it from, but I would imagine that the option would not be sold with the same degree of "sales puffery" as Tesla does, with promises and deadlines, and that they would defend themselves as it not being reasonable to expect them to know the minutiae of every option on every car they sell.
I guess the other point is FSD doesn’t really have any value in the second hand market. Wasn’t it even Tesla that basically give you nothing extra for a car with FSD than a car without. You basically get it for free if you find a car that has it second hand.
A feature that does nothing has no value you can attach to it.
People are claiming based on mis-sold goods that haven’t been delivered, if you don’t buy from Tesla you don’t have a such a claim. If what you say is true, there would be a lucrative market in buying cars with FSD on the used market for only a few hundreds more than a car without FSD (which is the going rate), claiming £6,800 back from Tesla, and then selling the car on without it and probably making £5k a time.
If the claim was the car was defective, you’d be right.
Yup, if you try and order one on Tesla finance having FSD does not make any difference to the quoted guaranteed future value.
Yes, we're aware. Sue anyone over anything.
You might have Common Law, but over here, we've introduced Common sense...
I think you are overselling the country a little bit. We use it in liberal doses to make sure we don't run out
Martinb999
Member
I know that Tesla are restricted on FSD in the UK because of regulations but I am sick of Tesla making promises and not delivering. Talking to a friend, he suggested a Government Petition to (hopefully) light the fuse. You don't get anywhere unless you try.............So..............
I’ve made a petition – will you sign it?
Click this link to sign the petition:
Petition: Make Tesla Reimburse UK Tesla drivers for Full Self Driving
My petition:
Make Tesla Reimburse UK Tesla drivers for Full Self Driving
Parliament should ensure that Tesla reimburse all those who have bought FSD to date.
Tesla have been selling their cars in the UK for some years now and from the beginning Full Self Driving (FSD) was advertised as "coming soon". Almost five years on Tesla drivers still don't have it due to UNECE regulations however Tesla knew of this restriction from day one. Parliament should ensure that Tesla reimburse all those who have bought FSD to date as taking Tesla to court is a long laborious process and waste of our courts time. Parliament is there to protect the public including this unrealistic claim made by Tesla.
Petition: Make Tesla Reimburse UK Tesla drivers for Full Self Driving
I’ve made a petition – will you sign it?
Click this link to sign the petition:
Petition: Make Tesla Reimburse UK Tesla drivers for Full Self Driving
My petition:
Make Tesla Reimburse UK Tesla drivers for Full Self Driving
Parliament should ensure that Tesla reimburse all those who have bought FSD to date.
Tesla have been selling their cars in the UK for some years now and from the beginning Full Self Driving (FSD) was advertised as "coming soon". Almost five years on Tesla drivers still don't have it due to UNECE regulations however Tesla knew of this restriction from day one. Parliament should ensure that Tesla reimburse all those who have bought FSD to date as taking Tesla to court is a long laborious process and waste of our courts time. Parliament is there to protect the public including this unrealistic claim made by Tesla.
Click this link to sign the petition:Petition: Make Tesla Reimburse UK Tesla drivers for Full Self Driving
Last edited:
I haven't looked at this thread for a little while, I think I missed an email notification.
I don't have a huge amount to add to this thread, a number of people have been in touch with me away from the public glare of this forum though. One interesting development is that Tesla's lawyers are now asking for an undertaking from claimants (e.g. the people suing them) not to disclose the settlement terms, and they are asking for this undertaking *before* the settlement terms are disclosed. The settlements have an NDA in them, so once the settlement are accepted Tesla are "safe", but it is the step between sending the settlement over to the customer and the customer signing it.
FWIW, I don't think this step gives Tesla much (any?) protection. I'm not an expert in undertakings, but the two situations I see them are:
1) Between solicitors when it comes to money - e.g. "Solicitor A undertakes to pay Solicitor B £300,000 on completion of the house sale contract"
2) To the court (e.g. injunction-type)
But anyway... overall suing them seems to generate the desired outcome.
I don't have a huge amount to add to this thread, a number of people have been in touch with me away from the public glare of this forum though. One interesting development is that Tesla's lawyers are now asking for an undertaking from claimants (e.g. the people suing them) not to disclose the settlement terms, and they are asking for this undertaking *before* the settlement terms are disclosed. The settlements have an NDA in them, so once the settlement are accepted Tesla are "safe", but it is the step between sending the settlement over to the customer and the customer signing it.
FWIW, I don't think this step gives Tesla much (any?) protection. I'm not an expert in undertakings, but the two situations I see them are:
1) Between solicitors when it comes to money - e.g. "Solicitor A undertakes to pay Solicitor B £300,000 on completion of the house sale contract"
2) To the court (e.g. injunction-type)
But anyway... overall suing them seems to generate the desired outcome.
Billbrown1982
TM3 LR 2021 | Red | FSD
Nothing to lose but I honestly can't see this gaining enough traction unfortunately.
Martinb999
Member
Well, as you say Bill, nothing to lose.................
Billbrown1982
TM3 LR 2021 | Red | FSD
Does anyone know when the offending video about FSD that turned out to be a scam disappeared from the Tesla site?
Way back machine shows there was "something" there but it won't load it so I can check.
EDIT - Nevermind it just randomly loaded. That'll do
Way back machine shows there was "something" there but it won't load it so I can check.
EDIT - Nevermind it just randomly loaded. That'll do
This statement is a point I have been giving a lot of consideration to. In some circumstances, some FSD owners somewhere feel their cars do something that represents some value. The well documented issues of humidity build up, b-pillar and other camera condensation and radar / USS / sensor fusion issues all make me question if the HW3 platform is really FSD capable in certain climates. It certainly does not allow for reliable sensor operation any where near 'most of the time' in my experience in the UK. I to would most likely be prepared to chalk FSD non delivery up to experience if there was any evidence that Tesla had or is currently making even a modest effort to get something ready to meet our roads and regulations.
Even if I hadn't shelled out for the actual FSD software license, I was still sold a platform specifically claimed to be capable of running it - presumably in the locale where the vehicle is sold / purchased.
Yes. This ^^^
The self contradictory / disfunctional FSD traffic light recognition feature that is only for use on (freeways / interstates / motorways - who knows where?) where there are no traffic lights. (unless you count truck rear lights being interpreted as traffic lights!) is surely enough to convey the true state of UK FSD.
I had a test drive in February 2020 which was organised by Cambridge sales centre, who brought several M3’s to a Hotel in Norfolk.
The guys were really enthusiastic about AP and FSD. The guy I was dealing with had driven most of the way from Cambridge on AP.
The staff all genuinely believed that FSD was coming at the end of 2020 and when the price went up in September 2020 it appeared to be a clear sign that it was on the move.
It was of course bull, but even the staff didn’t know that
TACC is less inaccurate without radar and I’ve had my B pillar glasses replaced to reduce condensation to no avail. Traffic lights are identified where they they simply don’t exist. Even some junctions are seen as bends. On the A11, auto lane change only works in one direction in some places. Perhaps that’s due to mapping.
The faith that has been put into cameras to solve all situations is completely misplaced under current hardware.
Only time will tell. But having wasted too much time following the progression in the US on YouTube, I certainly wish we had what they have there. And the rate of improvement since the release of V12 to me is quite encouraging.
MrBadger
Badger out
Any advancement on 4 votes?
teslamotorsclub.com
Have you received a refund on FSD
Have you received a refund for your FSD purchase from Tesla or some other means such as Section 75 of consumer credit act or from another car supplier such a lease company? FSD transfer does not apply. This is an anonymous poll.
teslamotorsclub.com
Agree with that.
Fortunately there isn't a statute of limitations.
Meaning at some point, when FSD will be available in Europe, I suspect it will only be available for next-gen vehicles, judging how quickly they are dropping anything <HW3 / Intel platform currently (e.g:new Autopark).
And as Elon stated before, there is no possible upgrade path from HW3 to HW4 or above.
Therefore if, say City Streets in Europe (due to narrower roads and intrinsically more complex intersections) is only made available for an hypothetical HW5 vehicle with HD-radar or whatever tech Tesla will backtrack on to make robotaxi possible and legal in the future, all legacy owners will have a good claim on their hands.
Not looking to wind anybody up but this thread shows the cult of personality, that being Elon Musk. I can’t believe people were so naive to pay all that money for FSD expecting it within the lifetime of their car. By FSD I mean asking your car to drive you to work for example with no inputs, but still ready to take over.
I would guesstimate that kind of autonomous driving is a decade away in the US with mass adoption working reliably and no accidents. Probably 2-3 decades away in the UK with our notoriously complex road systems. Tesla can’t even get the basics right like cruise control (phantom braking) and auto lane change (scarily abandons mid change). Tesla’s auto park is a disgrace, still. All of these miles behind legacy car manufacturers, especially the German brands that’s do everything perfectly.
It probably does need government intervention to act on behalf of mislead consumers.
I would guesstimate that kind of autonomous driving is a decade away in the US with mass adoption working reliably and no accidents. Probably 2-3 decades away in the UK with our notoriously complex road systems. Tesla can’t even get the basics right like cruise control (phantom braking) and auto lane change (scarily abandons mid change). Tesla’s auto park is a disgrace, still. All of these miles behind legacy car manufacturers, especially the German brands that’s do everything perfectly.
It probably does need government intervention to act on behalf of mislead consumers.
Ask me a few years ago before the first FSD Beta dropped and I'd have agreed with you but in the US it's very impressive. Not perfect but it could drive you to work with you ready to take over already for a lot of people and roads.
I do think it's still many years away from coming here but not 2-3 decades.
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