I'm Out....

[smac]

I feel like, at ~50k miles, I've just broken mine in. I still invent reasons to drive places - taking a ~60 mi round trip just to go browse at the home improvement store, coming home with a few electrical parts or a clearance item or something, and knowing it cost me all of about $1.50 to do that (compared to $10+ in my Suburban or '65 GTO).

The loaners don't feel as "comfortable" as my Signature car does, because typically they haven't been broken in yet. While I don't mind a spirited run in a P85D, I still like my car better.

Repeat after me, the Tesla creed:

This is my Tesla. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My Tesla is my best friend. It is my drive. I must master it as I must master my drive.
My Tesla, without me, is useless. Without my Tesla, I drive without fun.
I must drive my Tesla true. I must drive straighter than my enemy who is trying to ICE me.
I must supercharge before he ICE's me. I will...
My Tesla and I know that what counts in driving is not the miles we drive, the noise of our car,
nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the fun that counts. We will charge...
My Tesla is human, even as I, because it is my drive. Thus, I will learn it as a brother.
I will learn its weaknesses, its strengths, its parts, its accessories, its frunk and its trunk.
I will keep my Tesla clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready.
We will become part of each other. We will...
Before God, I swear this creed. My Tesla and I are the defenders of fun driving.
We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of transportation.
So be it, until victory is electric and there is no enemy, but peace!

(Adaptation of Rifleman's Creed and a nod to Kubrick.)

lol...


I could add "this is my rifle, this is my gun. This is for commuting, this is for fun "

 

[thegruf]

hi smac (hope that username is not urban btw )

I hear your pain as a new uk owner who has just taken the plunge and waiting delivery later this year.
In my case I am banking on a 6yr stint to cover my risk which puts even worst case TCO in range of a lesser ICE.

Keep your car for a couple of years more and I think you will find the market will settle down, all the more so as the cars become more established.
You may yet find the depreciation nothing like as bad as your current scare.
I believe that people looking at buying used performance cars commonly with crippling running costs in the case of ICE, may start to see the Tesla as an interesting alternative.
I think even the US market is yet to get to that point.
£30K performance saloon with next to no ownership costs? vs what M3, RS5, C63, S Class

This remains one area Tesla really need to do some work in keeping the ownership costs sensible as the cars age, but is so much easier to do than ICE due to the simplicity.
A total motor refurb should be only iro £2K?


That Lotus is a perfect partner to the Tesla, a smooth GT and a nimble trackable car. Perfect companions. Jealous.

Enjoy life.
Always.

 

[smac]

@thegruf

Yep, I completely agree with you about the potential upside vs something like an M3/M5/Audi RS.

My biggest worry with the Tesla is actually the non drivetrain bits when it comes out of warranty. I think certain bits will be eye-wateringly expensive if they go wrong outside the 50kmile/4year main warranty (touchscreen/dash/on board chargers/pop out handles etc.). At the end of the day it's still a big luxury car with lots of toys, and you are reliant on "main dealer" repairs for everything, it will never be Ford Focus cheap to run


Completely agree about the partnership of the Tesla and Lotus btw, I already have an Elise, so it's nice to have such a stark contrast (Hopefully the Exige V6 brings the straightline speed closer to parity)

 

[AmpedRealtor]

If I hadn't purchased my Model S when I did, I would have dumped another 10,000 lbs of CO2 into the atmosphere along with any number of other carcinogenic substances by continuing to drive my Prius. I have no regrets, none. Environmental concerns were very much part of my purchase decision.

 

[thegruf]

^ Much though the eco argument for the Tesla is laudable, particularly from the zero emission front. The actual overall CO2 debate is much less clear cut due to the CO2 generated during the manufacturing cycle.
Definitely a debate for another thread, but I do think bold claims such as "I would have dumped another 10,000 lbs of CO2 into the atmosphere" can be readily challenged.

@smac

With you re the non drivetrain bits outside warranty. This is my biggest ownership concern most especially as I can only justify this purchase as a 6yr+ ownership proposition.

I believe Tesla have missed an important point here, the has warranted the costly mileage related items for 8 years, but the age related items are restricted to 50K miles ... which I will do in 18 months.
In the UK at least this is unsatisfactory in comparison to their peers.
In time I think Tesla will address this, but if ownership becomes too costly and there is insufficient goodwill, I (and I suspect many others) will become very vociferous ex-owners.
Tesla I believe can do, and will have to do, the math on this one.

Beyond this, and with ownership of their own retail and servicing outlets, Tesla actually have a real opportunity to kick the rest of the industry back into the stoneage yet again by offering perfectly profitable and very reasonably priced spares and maintenance. Thereby preserving the value of older cars and consequently the wider environmental benefits.

Time will tell.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

^ Much though the eco argument for the Tesla is laudable, particularly from the zero emission front. The actual overall CO2 debate is much less clear cut due to the CO2 generated during the manufacturing cycle.
Definitely a debate for another thread, but I do think bold claims such as "I would have dumped another 10,000 lbs of CO2 into the atmosphere" can be readily challenged.

Every fact in life can be challenged, but that doesn't make the challenge credible.

I have solar panels which generate power for my Model S without producing any emissions. Your statement would only be true if manufacturing of the Model S involves a much higher release of CO2 than the manufacture of other vehicles, and by a sufficiently high enough amount to offset zero emissions from driving and solar power generation across many tens of thousands of miles and years of ownership. I don't think anyone can make a credible argument in that direction. It's like trying to make that argument from 10 years ago that the Prius pollutes more than a Hummer. No, it doesn't.

 

[thegruf]

as I said a debate for a different thread

 

[brucet999]

Every fact in life can be challenged, but that doesn't make the challenge credible.

I have solar panels which generate power for my Model S without producing any emissions. Your statement would only be true if manufacturing of the Model S involves a much higher release of CO2 than the manufacture of other vehicles, and by a sufficiently high enough amount to offset zero emissions from driving and solar power generation across many tens of thousands of miles and years of ownership. I don't think anyone can make a credible argument in that direction. It's like trying to make that argument from 10 years ago that the Prius pollutes more than a Hummer. No, it doesn't.

Notably missing from the claims of high CO2 omissions in battery manufacturing is the fact that Tesla has a recycling program up and running that achieves 70% recycling rate, including lithium.

 

[dsm363]

smac: sorry to hear your car had so much trouble. Resale value is always tricky but if you keep the car long enough it becomes so low anyway it doesn't matter much.

 

[aneusomy]

Good thing you weren't a P85 owner when the P85D came out.

Ughhh I keep reliving the memory

But the cycle of life continues; soon there will be P85D owners complaining how they missed out on the P100D...

 

[smac]

OK so I thought it only fair to post an update on this thread.

I now am the lucky (and I do mean that) owner of two of what I think are the most fantastic, and many ways uniquely pure to their ethos cars in the world. But at VERY different ends of the car buying spectrum.

The Tesla is an amazing car in it's own right, but TBH I bought it "sight unseen" and had to rely on 3rd party opinions. So my expectation levels were maybe unrealistic, especially in the driving "experience". (You could call it refined, I call it a little clinical)

The Lotus too is a great car, and one I knew had (many) foibles before I even phoned the dealer. I hadn't quite appreciated what a difference the V6 engine had made to the car, and I had perversely ruled it out for 2 years despite many a 3rd party view on the 'Net. (Until my minor falling out of love with my Tesla inspired a test drive.)

The really weird thing is the Tesla makes me appreciate the Lotus's strengths, and the Lotus the Tesla's.

So now I'm back in a much happier place, esp. now I can choose depending on my mood (and the weather ), which car to drive every morning, and genuinely considering that my next "futuristic transport device" will be a Tesla in a couple of years time when I plan to trade in the S. Yet I still have a fundamental loyalty to what I consider the best car for blasting out the cobwebs after a hard week at work, and frankly the performance boost of the D motors wouldn't rectify that.

Maybe I just need to work harder, and buy a Mclaren P1, but from where I'm at right now, this seems a good compromise

 

[Jhall118]

You know that Tesla made a Roadster who's chassis was supplied by Lotus right?

Sure, you would have to had bought used, but it would have been significantly cheaper. I drove an Audi TT RS. I loved that car, but I could never again enjoy a gas car again. They seem antiquated and boring.

 

[smac]

You know that Tesla made a Roadster who's chassis was supplied by Lotus right?

Sure, you would have to had bought used, but it would have been significantly cheaper. I drove an Audi TT RS. I loved that car, but I could never again enjoy a gas car again. They seem antiquated and boring.

I briefly considered the Roadster (as well as the Cayman and other cars in a similar price range) but it lacks a few key features.

- Superchargers (especially track-side, and I do track the Lotus, as well as do road trips in it )
- Performance (Versus the latest crop of sports cars, it is a bit outgunned over 50mph )
- Involvement (Knowing it was you that did the heel and toe downshift, not a computer, has a real appeal)
- Soundtrack (OK I'm a big kid, but I love the noise of a nice sounding engine as you blast through tunnels )
- Age of car (And niggling maintenance that brings to any car)
- Lack of independent repairers ( to fix the above)
- Parts availability

I see it in the same way people still are prepared to spend serious money on vinyl playing hi-fi. I don't get that hobby at all TBH, but I guess it's analogous to us die hard stick-shift loving gear heads. The Lotus is a turntable, whilst the Tesla is an MP3 player, and I'm sure even the most ardent Audiophile has an iPod.

Different strokes and all that

 

[aland]

- Soundtrack (OK I'm a big kid, but I love the noise of a nice sounding engine as you blast through tunnels )


Different strokes and all that

Glad to hear you are in a better place with the s60 simon.

I had some major 'buyers remorse' going on with the 'hard' coil suspension but am mostly over that now (in hindsight i now know i'd picked up an injury to the nether regions playing footy that made me over sensitive...:redface.

Anyhow, happily loving the car again, but know what you mean about soundtrack - i dont have a clue about exotic supercars but happened to pull up next to this ferrari at lights few miles down the road and totally blown away by how awesome it sounded..

ps. also pretty cool numberplate

 

[thegruf]

I briefly considered the Roadster (as well as the Cayman and other cars in a similar price range) but it lacks a few key features.

- Superchargers (especially track-side, and I do track the Lotus, as well as do road trips in it )
- Performance (Versus the latest crop of sports cars, it is a bit outgunned over 50mph )
- Involvement (Knowing it was you that did the heel and toe downshift, not a computer, has a real appeal)
- Soundtrack (OK I'm a big kid, but I love the noise of a nice sounding engine as you blast through tunnels )
- Age of car (And niggling maintenance that brings to any car)
- Lack of independent repairers ( to fix the above)
- Parts availability

you missed the important one ...

weight


- great to hear you are back in a better place now.

In time I hope to do just as you, Model S for day to day and something rude for fun + trackdays

 

[smac]

Thanks Alan.

If you want to swap wheels with me whilst your nether regions recuperate, I'll take good care of them for you. 19s and coils is positively bouncy castle like compared to the Lotus, so I could deal with 21s easily enough

Yep, love the sound of a Ferrari at full chat. (probably only beaten by the Lexus LFA)

Whilst I'd love to own a Fezza, it would have to be a second car and end up being a garage queen rather than something to really use. Besides I'd get crucified by our sales team if I parked it at work when they had potential customers in.

If you ever want a nosey round some of that sort of exotic stuff, you should pop over to this: Midlands Car Meet: Car Cafe May 2015


I've been a couple of times, and despite the Tesla drawing some pretty big crowds (more so than the Ferraris strangely) it some how never features in any of their write ups.... (can't think why )

 

[smac]

you missed the important one ...

weight


- great to hear you are back in a better place now.

In time I hope to do just as you, Model S for day to day and something rude for fun + trackdays

Very true, the Roadster is still the wrong side of 1300kgs (on the example I've seen corner weighted), but the V6 engine swap has brought the current Exige up to almost 1200kg (My old Elise was <800kg)

I really can't recommend a Model S for daily use and something more compromised for fun + trackdays enough.

 

[chriSharek]

Sorry to hear your disappointments. But, enjoy buying gas over there!

 

[ToddRLockwood]

Welcome to the world of early adoption. It's a thrill to own the first of anything, but sometimes that thrill comes at a price. With software-intensive products especially, whether a smartphone, a digital camera or an electric vehicle, there is a high likelihood that the product will be a work-in-progress for awhile. But in your case, it was not only the product that was relatively new, it was also the sales & service infrastructure to support it. From your description, it sounds as though Tesla's UK operation was really the issue.

There are many hurdles that Tesla must get over when setting up shop in a new country. At the top of the list is finding and training quality employees. Setting up a Supercharger network poses additional challenges. Just because Tesla wants to build superchargers doesn't mean that they will always be granted the permits to do so. There are many factors beyond Tesla's control.

The depreciation you've experienced would be similar with any luxury vehicle in this price range. Check out the rate of depreciation on a Mercedes S Class or a Ferrari or Porsche. The first owner of these vehicles always takes the biggest hit. This depreciation can be greatly reduced if you buy a certified preowned car with low miles. But then of course you wouldn't have the first one.

 

[Yggdrasill]

My future Tesla fund has all just gone to Lotus for a new Exige V6 Roadster, and I feel in a much happier place (especially with a proven track record of 65%+ residuals after 3 years).

Just want to say that a "proven track record" doesn't amount to much when the market changes. Now, buying a Lotus Exige and keeping it for a few years probably isn't the most risky thing to do, but I can certainly see some risk when it somes to other cars. Once cheap(er) long-range BEVs in large numbers start flowing into the market, the competition will suffer residuals-wise.

In articles and discussions over here, it's very common to use the argument that something newer and better is just around the corner for BEVs, so buying one is risky. But the people who use that argument fail to realize that *all* residuals are in risk. It's like someone saying in the early 1900s that you shouldn't buy a Model T, because there's a much better car arriving very soon, and that you should instead buy a horse. Horses had a proven track record, until they didn't.

Now the Lotus probably isn't in any risk until Tesla comes with a next gen Roadster, maybe around 2020.