GEN III - When will we see the first prototype

[Grendal]

Who said anything about a two-seater drop top ?!?!?! LOL I want a four seater Hard top

A hard top makes more sense for aerodynamics and with the new skateboard design a four seater also makes the most sense for doing a convertible. Play to your strengths.

 

[Vger]

I think the timing might depend more on the price curve of the battery and when they are sure they can get the needed manufacturing ecomonies of scale. Those economies also imply a market mature to accept 100k+ annual volumes. This Gen III car must come close to its dramatically lower price point to succeed. The timing of the feasibility of that accomplishment will be key.

 

[vfx]

A hard top makes more sense for aerodynamics and with the new skateboard design a four seater also makes the most sense for doing a convertible. Play to your strengths.

There has to be a weight penalty for a retractable hardtop. Still though, the frunk makes for a magical combination of such a cool feature without compromise.

 

[brianman]

There has to be a weight penalty for a retractable hardtop. Still though, the frunk makes for a magical combination of such a cool feature without compromise.

Has anybody made (or demo'd) a convertible roof that stows forward (frunk) rather than backwards?

 

[Robert.Boston]

Has anybody made (or demo'd) a convertible roof that stows forward (frunk) rather than backwards?

Unlikely. (1) Most cars have their engine up there. (2) The front windscreen has to stay in place, while the rear windscreen should go away. Both reasons point to a rear-folding roof.

 

[brianman]

Unlikely. (1) Most cars have their engine up there. (2) The front windscreen has to stay in place, while the rear windscreen should go away. Both reasons point to a rear-folding roof.

Good. Then it's an opportunity for Tesla to explore something new to the industry.

 

[Kevin Harney]

I think the point of the post was to say fold the roof back AND still have a Frunk to use for storage.

 

[vfx]

*We've got to get a better name for that*

(paraphrasing Elon in the recent conference call when talking about the Genlll)

 

[Citizen-T]

*We've got to get a better name for that*

(paraphrasing Elon in the recent conference call when talking about the Genlll)

He said he is open to suggestions. I say we start a thread. Once we've got some good options a poll might be appropriate.

 

[vfx]

He (Elon) also said he expects a huge drop in battery prices by then.

And in a recent interview hinted at some significant progress on the third car.

 

[brianman]

I think the point of the post was to say fold the roof back AND still have a Frunk to use for storage.

In the original discussion sure, I was just thinking of different options uniquely available on the EV skateboard.

 

[Kevin Harney]

VFX,

Do you have a source on the progress. I would like to read/hear it. Thanks.

 

[WhiteKnight]

Is it possible that two small electric motors would be less expensive - or the same price - as one large electric motor?

In other words could BlueStar be AWD by default because two 120hp equivalent motors are the same price as a single 240 hp equivalent motor?

You would never think this way about a conventional car but I wonder how things change when we're talking electric.

 

[VolkerP]

I don't know price differences of electric motors. But driving two axles means double number of moving parts, double reduction gear & differential, double power electronics, and more complex control unit/TC/vehicle stability system. I doubt that you can recoup these costs with motor size.

 

[JRP3]

Is it possible that two small electric motors would be less expensive - or the same price - as one large electric motor?

I doubt it. Control is more complex, hence expensive, as is producing two units instead of one.

 

[vfx]

I doubt it. Control is more complex, hence expensive, as is producing two units instead of one.

Agreed buy maybe the cost could be a small enough amount that it is a very reasonable option. Especially after the grunt work has all been done on the X.

Kevin, I pretty much spew everything I know on these pages.

Sometimes we are asked to not blog about something and I respect that.

On the BlueGenlll, info comes from published interviews and there is usually just one line about the "future car" and i dutifully stick it in here. This car is the one to watch for me.

The thing that got me most excited though, has no details. One engineer I talked with said that Elon's initial requests are pushing this car to be even more groundbreaking than the S. Got the impression there is nothing physical built. So probably just drawings and specs at this point.

Sadly I agree with comments like Vger's that no matter how much we want our Dragon now, the release timing has to match battery development and it's price drops. 2015, 2016?

 

[Citizen-T]

Elon said on the call yesterday that he thinks battery prices will drop significantly with new chemistry in 3-4 years. So yeah, 2015 or 2016, assuming that the car and battery tech can happen in parallel.

 

[VolkerP]

Yes, he correlated introduction of new battery chemistry with new car platform and pointed out the cost cuttings by using less Cobalt in the cells for Model S. Of course it would be possible to retrofit new cells in an older battery pack. But we're still waiting to see that happen with the Roadster.

 

[WhiteKnight]

Agreed buy maybe the cost could be a small enough amount that it is a very reasonable option. Especially after the grunt work has all been done on the X.

Would two small motors allow you to re-capture more energy/power (sorry I don't know the proper term) through regenerative braking than a single large motor?

Could the range of an EV with two small motors be longer than the range of an EV with one large motor?

 

[Yggdrasill]

Is it possible that two small electric motors would be less expensive - or the same price - as one large electric motor?

In other words could BlueStar be AWD by default because two 120hp equivalent motors are the same price as a single 240 hp equivalent motor?

You would never think this way about a conventional car but I wonder how things change when we're talking electric.

The motor cost is probably related more to production numbers than size, at this point in time. But once production is sufficiently high for a given motor, in all probability it's cheaper with one big motor than two smaller motors.

So, it probably cheaper to buy 20,000 motors with 100 kW than 19,400 motors with 100 kW and 300 motors with 200 kW. But cheaper still to buy 10,000 motors with 200 kW than 20,000 motors with 100 kW.

Development costs for a 100 kW and 200 kW motor will be largely the same. Production time will be largely the same. Administration, shipping, etc will be largely the same. The biggest difference is material costs, and material cost simply isn't that big a part of the total cost.

In large scale production, the production cost might be something like $5000 for a 100 kW motor and $7500 for a 200 kW motor. The bigger motor has a lower cost per kW.

How this relates to Tesla depends on the market conditions. It's possible that it's cheaper with multiple indentical motors, but it's also possible that different sized motors are cheaper.