Ford: "We can build a car like Model S"

[Grendal]

Tesla is dominating the world's automotive media. The CEO of nearly every major car manufacturer mentions Tesla every time they are interviewed. Tesla's sales numbers may be small, but they are casting a very long shadow.

For better and worse. The media attention is definitely a double edged sword as evidenced by the overblown fire scare.

I personally look at this as the old saying goes: "Any Press is Good Press". I think the overblown fire scare is a good example of this. There are still a few that think a Model S is a fire hazard but the end result is that there was a positive effect on the car and the company for the general public.

And back the topic at hand, IMO by the time that Ford creates a reasonably competitive car against Tesla that Tesla will have already built their next generation car that will be far superior to the Ford car. They could build a competitive car today but how much would that car cost? Twice as much at least.

 

[David99]

And back the topic at hand, IMO by the time that Ford creates a reasonably competitive car against Tesla that Tesla will have already built their next generation car that will be far superior to the Ford car. They could build a competitive car today but how much would that car cost? Twice as much at least.

Of course Ford wouldn't build a car that matches the specs of a car that came out 2 years ago like the Model S. If they are serious, they will of course set the bar for the future, not the past. That's what every modern high tech manufacturer does. I wouldn't underestimate the big players in the car industry. They have massive resources and a huge customer base that is brand loyal.

 

[Grendal]

Of course Ford wouldn't build a car that matches the specs of a car that came out 2 years ago like the Model S. If they are serious, they will of course set the bar for the future, not the past. That's what every modern high tech manufacturer does. I wouldn't underestimate the big players in the car industry. They have massive resources and a huge customer base that is brand loyal.

I would say to Ford, show me, don't tell me. Until they actually build anything that is remotely close to what the Model S has shown then I don't care how big a company they are. It is all talk. In a purely logistics sense, where is Ford going to get the batteries to power their car? Those automotive grade batteries don't just spontaneously create themselves. It took Tesla years to build up to their current level and it is still a sticking point in their production process.

 

[sperrysburg]

Even if major OEMs manufactured a high mileage EV, I think the Supercharger network is a huge commercial advantage for Tesla.

 

[Seven7]

Well tell them to go ahead and build it then, just my opinion here but I think many Americans and others have had their fill of the big three's customer service (or whatever you want to call it)

 

[Jack6591]

The mission of Tesla Motors is to advance the electrification of transportation. If Ford builds a car like the Model S it would be a great thing.

Just got off the 405 in Los Angeles.......there are millions of cars out there. We are in a target rich environment. Competition should be the last thing on anyone's mind.

 

[inottawa]

Can they write all the software and firmware too?

Can't they just make a nice big console version of Ford Sync? <sarcasm>That's the best user interface I've ever experienced in a car!</sarcasm>

 

[capt601]

Even if major OEMs manufactured a high mileage EV, I think the Supercharger network is a huge commercial advantage for Tesla.

Exaclty!! What others can't seem to figure out is he high speed charging network is a necessity or it simply remains a city EV car. the superchargers are Teslas biggest game changer and they are "giving" away free high speed charging.

 

[Mr X]

The Model S alone is better than every car Ford has ever made... im sure Ford can make a better car... LOL

 

[Canuck]

I was in the mall today with my kids and we checked out the crowded Apple store. Then later we walked by a booth Microsoft had set up in the middle of the mall with their tablets and phones. I looked at them with my kids who had no interest in them at all and didn't even know what they were. I told them at one time (when my 17 year old was born) Microsoft had to bail out Apple.

Long story short, things change fast. I'd never count any company out - in 20 years from now I wouldn't be surprised if Ford was making a great electric vehicle that rivals, or is better than,Tesla. Tesla makes the best electric vehicle now - but no one stays on top forever. And that's a good thing, in my opinion. We humans are just very short sighted.

 

[CHG-ON]

I'm very sad about Ford. I am a fan of that company because without Henry Ford, where would manufacturing be today? Well, probably just the same. But I guess I'm a romantic. He changed our world completely. It really pisses me off that American auto companies seem to have every excuse in the book as to why they can not or will not do something and no answers as to what they really could do. Yes, Ford and GM have improved their quality and their product offerings dramatically in response to extreme international competition (I leave Chrysler off the list because I think their products are crap-sorry to offend anybody, but I do). But for companies that have more resources and political clout available to them than any other auto companies on whole damn planet, there is no excuse for their middling products that are simply OK or good. I really do think it's disgraceful and a terrible shame. Show me ONE person in either company who has the true fire to build a truly world beating car (maybe the Corvette, but quality still is not on par with it's competitors). If they are there, they are squashed by the corporate, political gamesmanship that does nothing more than protect the status quo of low cost inferior product and gild their lillies.

Remember when "Cadillac" was used as a term to refer to the very best in the world? They have come back from the hideous days of the 70's, 80's, 90's and 00's. But dollar for dollar, would you buy a Cadillac over a BMW, Infiniti, Audi, Mercedes, TESLA? Not me. Would GM drive to my house and swap out my car at a moment's notice when something goes wrong, give me the same model as a loaner for as long as it takes to repair my issue, charge me NOTHING and then call to make sure that everything is OK during AND after the the repair and the car is returned?

Nope.

Unfortunately, we Americans are suckers and actually buy this crap and are thankful that we can. Terribly unfortunate in my opinion.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[Robert.Boston]

Moderator's Note

I made a slight adjustment to the thread title to better reflect the topic (and to correct capitalization).

 

[anticitizen13.7]

I was in the mall today with my kids and we checked out the crowded Apple store.

Long story short, things change fast. I'd never count any company out.

I think it's true that no one should ever be counted out, but Apple was an exceptional case.

Apple had Steve Jobs, a charismatic (some say crazy and awful) visionary who was willing to push the envelope. He brought NeXT to Apple at a time when Apple's OS development was floundering. He led innovation in digital music, electronics retail, mobile phones, and tablets.

Apple had to re-boot from almost nothing at a point when established PC makers and Microsoft dominated the computing world. Ford has generally done well in the past few years. It's an establishment company and does not have a Jobs-like leader or legions of diehard fans willing to camp out or wait extraordinarily long times for its products. I wouldn't discount Ford entirely, but they are no Apple.

 

[wart]

I've been a Ford guy all my life. My earliest automotive memories are of riding in my Dad's '67 Mustang, and today I drive a Mustang of my own. And I even hold a few shares of F (though I own a lot more TSLA). So nothing would make me happier than to see Ford get serious about electric cars. But I'm not convinced they are ready to take that plunge. For legacy manufacturers it's just too hard to write off their huge investments in ICE technology. And in the era of "platform sharing" they aren't going to design a unique chassis to accommodate a large battery pack the way Tesla did. So Ford will continue to build compromised EV's like the Focus Electric.

It's really going to be interesting to see what happens after the Model 3 is out. As long as Teslas cost $80k plus, it's easy for naysayers to say it's an expensive niche. But with fuel cost savings the TCO of the Model 3 ought to be pretty close to that of a lot of mainstream midsize sedans. If Tesla has the ability to build and sell 100k Model 3's in about 2018 or 2019 it's going to really get some people's attention.

Several people have mentioned the importance of the Supercharger network. Hasn't Tesla stated they are willing to share Supercharger technology, along with other patents? It would require some investment but Ford/GM/BMW/etc. wouldn't have to start from scratch like Tesla did.

I believe Ford and other manufacturers have the technological ability to build a car like Model S. What remains to be seen is whether they have the financial or political ability.

 

[mspohr]

I don't think they even have the technical skills to build an EV. They have lots of ICE skills but are clueless about EVs. They would need to start a skunkworks project from scratch to build a real EV.

 

[xhawk101]

Can't wait to see Ford's reaction when Tesla builds a pickup that eats the F-150's lunch.

This. Will likely be the tipping point. When Joe or Jane Six Pack realizes their gas truck has a better alternative - then conversion from ICE to electric avalanche will be complete.

 

[ElSupreme]

I don't think they even have the technical skills to build an EV. They have lots of ICE skills but are clueless about EVs. They would need to start a skunkworks project from scratch to build a real EV.

They already do make a "REAL" EV. It's called the Focus Electric and is quite good!

 

[SmartElectric]

[Ford] already do [assemble] a "REAL" EV. It's called the Focus Electric and is quite good!

Fixed that for you...

Ford does not produce the batteries, battery pack, motor, inverter or other parts of the Focus EV.
In contrast, Tesla manufacturers everything but the batteries from the list above.

Ford has yet to show they are anywhere near the equal of Tesla on that front.
Outsourcing the prime cost drivers of an EV like Ford does is not a recipe for long term success.

 

[Saghost]

I don't think they even have the technical skills to build an EV. They have lots of ICE skills but are clueless about EVs. They would need to start a skunkworks project from scratch to build a real EV.

There's no black magic in the Model S, just a lot of carefully chosen trade-offs. I don't think there's any question that Ford, or GM, or most other automakers could build a car that's the technical equivalent of the Model S - especially since Tesla chose to open up their own patents.

Whether they could do it for a similar price and make a profit, whether they could make a better car, and whether they'd be motivated to make such a car in the first place are all much harder questions to answer - and I suspect the answer to most of them is no.
Walter

 

[green1]

But with fuel cost savings the TCO of the Model 3 ought to be pretty close to that of a lot of mainstream midsize sedans

Actually it's better than that. When I've run the numbers, the Model 3 will completely pay for itself in fuel and maintenance savings within about 5-10 years (maybe sooner) when compared to most mid-sized sedans, not just match the cost of the other car, You'll save the full purchase price of the vehicle just in your fuel and maintenance savings.