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Oreo
Member
mknox, I think you are absolutely correct.
There's been a lot of fuzz back and forth regarding the "Winter package", actually around the time this test was done. That is misinformation from Tesla's side mainly, as I see it. Websites have been updated frequently. As per now you can read on the "Other EU" region: http://www.teslamotors.com/en_EU/models/options
So we (myself included) are paying EUR 1.275 for preheating the washer fluid, wiper blades and being able to warm our kids butts.
Having three kids, and living in a cold country, I included it. So the theoretically extended range you would possibly get is the energy you'd save by not having to use the regualar cabin heat as you say.
This is also confirmed by Tesla representatives in Norway that this is more or less a "Comfort" package.
So adding more range with the winterpackage as the roporter says, is BS (IMO), unfortunatly based on (mis)information from Tesla in the first place.
I certainly hope the ventilation problem on the front side window will be solved, both with and WITHOUT the winterpackage. Otherwise it will be looked as a scam (i.e. not usable during winterconditions).
Anyway a great test though.
If using the seat heaters let you reduce the cabin heat a few degrees, then it absolutely will increase your range a little in extreme temperatures.
What do you think is cold?
Answer: When you feel "cold". In Nicaragua, going from 100 F to 80 F makes me feel cold. If I am 15 years old and live in Minnesota, I can walk around in shorts and a T shirt at 20 F and be very comfortable. In San Francisco, 65 F can be cold. My opinion is anything less than 55 F. My Chevy Volt thinks anything less than 26 F is cold (starts the gas generator to heat the battery pack). If I wear a down jacket, long johns, wool cap and smart wool socks, 35 F is cold.
What do you think is cold?
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All it takes is practice and living in the Midwest with very flat roads.
Answer: When you feel "cold". In Nicaragua, going from 100 F to 80 F makes me feel cold. If I am 15 years old and live in Minnesota, I can walk around in shorts and a T shirt at 20 F and be very comfortable. In San Francisco, 65 F can be cold. My opinion is anything less than 55 F. My Chevy Volt thinks anything less than 26 F is cold (starts the gas generator to heat the battery pack). If I wear a down jacket, long johns, wool cap and smart wool socks, 35 F is cold.
What do you think is cold?
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All it takes is practice and living in the Midwest with very flat roads.
You didn't include this requirement in your initial assertion.All it takes is practice and living in the Midwest with very flat roads.
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"Anyone can get <= 0 Wh/mi for 30mph."
vs.
"Anyone can get <= 0 Wh/mi for 30mph when going downhill on a 45 degree decline."
I think -20C is "cold", and so does the car. You're not going to get 250 miles at those temperatures. The realistic range at 50 mph is about 205 miles.
The battery heater is coming with the Cold Weather option is more efficient. This was the main reason for me to choose this option.
Here is what has been posted in the German Tesla forum send to somebody from an European DS:
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Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Tesla have later adjusted their info saying that the battery heater is identical with and without the cold weather packet.
Tesla Europe needs to really get their act together. It's not the first time wrong information has been circulated by them. A more efficient heat pump was the main reason for me to get the cold weather package.
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Agreed 100%. Whoever is their head of marketing/PR/communications is not doing their job IMO. Yes, I know it's hard to stay on top of things when things are moving so fast, but really that's only even more reason to make sure, and then make sure again, that information given to customers is accurate. So much better to say "Don't know" or "To be determined" than saying something that later shows out to be wrong.
ModelS8794
Member
Looks to me they added an optional item and made it standard on all European models. No good deed goes unpunished?
What leads you to conclude that it's a position in Tesla Europe that's the problem rather than a person in California? This type of problem is definitely not unique to Europe details disclosure. As such, I'd expect it's a problem from Tesla at a higher level that impacts all markets.
Similarly, I hear people complain about bad info from reps in stores. Sometimes people blame the individual stores, but I suspect it's more a problem in the distribution channels from the decision makers. "But why do some stores seem to have better info?" Because some people are better at dealing with such nuances and/or have built up networking (via coworkers that have been promoted) and thus get access to better info.
It doesn't have to be this way, but it often seems to be this way. And it's not a Tesla-unique problem.
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Not fun if you opted for the winter pack since you wanted the upgraded battery heater and then it turns out you would have gotten it for free...
Thermodynamically speaking, it is impossible for one resistive electric heater to be more efficient than another. They all have the same efficiency. You could make it more powerful, or you could better insulate the battery, but you're not going to make the heater more efficient.
A heat pump can be more efficient; but you need a reservoir to pump the heat from. I believe this is why the heater takes so much less power once the car is heated up.
A heat pump can be more efficient; but you need a reservoir to pump the heat from. I believe this is why the heater takes so much less power once the car is heated up.
Bigbit
Member
yeah, true that. My understanding was that with lower temperatures the standard heat pump cannot provide enough heat to warm the battery pack and an additional resistive electric heater is used. With the cold weather pack the heat pump is upgraded to a more powerful version and the resitive heater won't be used that quickly. As I understand it now this is not correct.
As a Canadian who has had my 60 since March, I find this video amazing! I got my car just at the tail end of a proper winter, so only got about one chance to try it on my main winter 'big drive' that is about 230 kms. It did quite well at about -5 with wind, but there was not really snow and/or blizzard-type conditions. As I start gearing up my brain for my first winter with this car, I'm often thinking about the various elements that this video shows in such a simple and effective demo. The thing with the tape is really interesting because I find the more I drive this car (in the summer), the more my brain acts like that piece of tape...ie I naturally ignore the charge details the longer I drive the car because I 'trust it' more, just like I would any car with a regular gas tank. My goal for this upcoming winter will be to 'trust' my car in the exact same way and be confident that it can do the job in cold temps, ideally without having to do range charges all the time (yes, Doug G, I know I shouldn't hesitate to use range charges on long trips, but I can't help it! It's the 'battery life' miser in me, even though I may not even be hurting the battery if I charge to range only right before I leave.) Anyways, this video does a great job of proving that the car can do the job in the winter. Very nice work!!!
