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FIRMWARE UPDATE! AP2 Local road driving...and holy crap
- Thread starter Skalinator
- Start date
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Well, I assume the one they settled in Norway over the horsepower claims was "certified", but I'm no lawyer.
Nigel Tufnel
Member
I was neither smart enough nor did enough research to realize that AP2 was going to be essentially useless to me for the first x number of weeks, months or years of ownership. So, that's on me. But here's where I start whining: None of the half-dozen or so Tesla representatives I've talked to about the issue seem to be even aware of what's going on. So of course I came here, because I think the awareness/intelligence level is likely to be much higher. And Ad hominem attacks are a small price to pay for the experience.
Oh, and I assume you haven't discovered yet they totally ripped off you audio system enhancement that makes the top volume 11 on the amp. All the way up. all the way up. All the way up. Where do you go? What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do? Put it up to eleven. Eleven. Exactly. One louder.
Nigel Tufnel
Member
WillK
Member
On the financial call today they said they wanted to run their new Tesla Vision alongside Mobile Eye to make the transition but Mobile Eye would not do it. So it has not gone to plan but I think it will get there and I will be happy. It will just take more time than I thought.
NerdUno
Member
Morning Chuckle: Here's an excerpt from yesterday's earnings report pertaining to AP2 in comparison to AP1...
Which is absurd from mobileye's perspective. "We want to use your well developed system to test/teach our system so that we can get rid of you".
lunitiks
Cool James & Black Teacher
"Excellent, so since you're getting rid of us anyway, why the heck would we want make money out of you while we still can? No, forget it, we want all YOUR data if we're supposed to do that."
Here is the relevant transcript:
Also interesting re lowered insurance costs because safer and fewer insurance losses:
Ryan Brinkman - JPMorgan Securities LLC
Great. Thanks for taking my question. Just regarding the explanation in the shareholder letter that you experienced a little autopilot revenue, a little new revenue in 4Q, can you talk about what delayed the software updates into 1Q? Was it the switch from Mobileye in any way? And then talk about how the current capabilities of autopilot in 1Q in terms of performance and safety, how that's better than maybe what was offered previously?
Elon Reeve Musk - Tesla, Inc.
Yes, we had some challenges in the transition from Mobileye to Tesla software running on GPU. Our original plan was to have a migration strategy, where we have Mobileye and Tesla Vision operating at the same time to have kind of a smooth process, but Mobileye refused to do that. So, that poised (18:16) us to re-spin the board and caused unexpected delays where we had to basically (18:22) from the board and just kind of (18:26) Tesla Vision.
Safety is always our primary concern. So, really we could have released Tesla Vision and including (18:42) high speed, probably three months ago – I was driving at a high speed personally three months ago, but I think we want to just have an exhaustive testing process, vetting (18:57) process before enabling that throughout the fleet.
So, we've been edging our way up there gradually. Now, longitudinal control, the Traffic-Aware Cruise Control is at 80 miles an hour. And Autosteer is at 50 miles an hour, and I think we should be able to get, unless testing shows something different, we should be able to get them both to around the maybe 85 miles an hour next month and be at parity with Hardware 1 (19:36). And then obviously things will only improve from there. So, that's that.
Great. Thanks for taking my question. Just regarding the explanation in the shareholder letter that you experienced a little autopilot revenue, a little new revenue in 4Q, can you talk about what delayed the software updates into 1Q? Was it the switch from Mobileye in any way? And then talk about how the current capabilities of autopilot in 1Q in terms of performance and safety, how that's better than maybe what was offered previously?
Elon Reeve Musk - Tesla, Inc.
Yes, we had some challenges in the transition from Mobileye to Tesla software running on GPU. Our original plan was to have a migration strategy, where we have Mobileye and Tesla Vision operating at the same time to have kind of a smooth process, but Mobileye refused to do that. So, that poised (18:16) us to re-spin the board and caused unexpected delays where we had to basically (18:22) from the board and just kind of (18:26) Tesla Vision.
Safety is always our primary concern. So, really we could have released Tesla Vision and including (18:42) high speed, probably three months ago – I was driving at a high speed personally three months ago, but I think we want to just have an exhaustive testing process, vetting (18:57) process before enabling that throughout the fleet.
So, we've been edging our way up there gradually. Now, longitudinal control, the Traffic-Aware Cruise Control is at 80 miles an hour. And Autosteer is at 50 miles an hour, and I think we should be able to get, unless testing shows something different, we should be able to get them both to around the maybe 85 miles an hour next month and be at parity with Hardware 1 (19:36). And then obviously things will only improve from there. So, that's that.
Also interesting re lowered insurance costs because safer and fewer insurance losses:
Adam Michael Jonas - Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC
Thank you. Thank you. Just a follow-up. On insurance, if your cars prove to be as much as 90% safer than other cars on a per mile basis, as I think you've alluded as a reasonable target medium-term, and if insurance companies only offer your customers, say, like a piddling 5% discount versus a comparably priced car, would you consider offering a service or product like P&C insurance directly to Tesla owners from your own platform and your own stores? Thanks.
Elon Reeve Musk - Tesla, Inc.
Jon, do you want to take that?
Jonathan McNeill - Tesla, Inc.
Hey, Adam, it's Jon. We're actually currently doing that. And we've been doing it quietly. But in Asia in particular, where we started this, now the majority of Tesla cars are sold with an insurance product that is customized to Tesla. It takes into account not only this autopilot safety features, but also the maintenance cost of the car. So, it's our vision in the future that we'll be able to offer a single price for the car, maintenance, and insurance, in a really compelling offering for the consumer. And we're currently doing that today.
Elon Reeve Musk - Tesla, Inc.
Yes, and this is not to the exclusion of insurance providers, but I mean, if we find that insurance providers are not matching the insurance proportionate to the rest of the car then, if we need to, we will in-source (7:12) it, but I think we'll find that insurance providers do adjust the insurance costs proportionate to the risk of a Tesla.
Thank you. Thank you. Just a follow-up. On insurance, if your cars prove to be as much as 90% safer than other cars on a per mile basis, as I think you've alluded as a reasonable target medium-term, and if insurance companies only offer your customers, say, like a piddling 5% discount versus a comparably priced car, would you consider offering a service or product like P&C insurance directly to Tesla owners from your own platform and your own stores? Thanks.
Elon Reeve Musk - Tesla, Inc.
Jon, do you want to take that?
Jonathan McNeill - Tesla, Inc.
Hey, Adam, it's Jon. We're actually currently doing that. And we've been doing it quietly. But in Asia in particular, where we started this, now the majority of Tesla cars are sold with an insurance product that is customized to Tesla. It takes into account not only this autopilot safety features, but also the maintenance cost of the car. So, it's our vision in the future that we'll be able to offer a single price for the car, maintenance, and insurance, in a really compelling offering for the consumer. And we're currently doing that today.
Elon Reeve Musk - Tesla, Inc.
Yes, and this is not to the exclusion of insurance providers, but I mean, if we find that insurance providers are not matching the insurance proportionate to the rest of the car then, if we need to, we will in-source (7:12) it, but I think we'll find that insurance providers do adjust the insurance costs proportionate to the risk of a Tesla.
sillydriver
Member
So the comment upthread in post #191 on what Tesla should have done about the transition was correct, and the reply from @mblakele #194 saying why they didn't / couldn't do it was also correct: Tesla is forced to reinvent the wheel (or the system that controls the wheel) while customers wait. They are not trying to screw their customers. For everyone's sake I wish them luck getting it done!
That may be news to you, but it isn't news to them. They knew the situation and clearly misrepresented it to customers.
It is good that they think it will be enabled for reasonable highway speeds in a month, but it doesn't seem to be stable enough for that at the moment. (I'm basing that on the 1st hand account thread...I don't have an AP2 car)
drshan
Active Member
I think Elon's comments yesterday regarding the migration strategy some up everything. My one concern would be his interpretation of parity (both programs working at 85 mph). The tesla owners consensus on parity is both programs working with equal precision and safety. When exactly that will take place....Big questionmark.
Agreed, it sure sounds like when Elon said "parity", in context he really meant approximately the same top speed (85mph vs 90mph). It seems like a stretch to reinterpret that to mean that Smart Summon, AutoPark, etc, would be a part of this update.
It's interesting to see us all perform our exegesis, in many cases, eisegesis, of Elon's texts. We read the website language, his tweets and ER calls and video interviews, like a bunch of Talmudic scholars.
Keeping that same frame of mind, it is worth considering that EM's acts of speech are not simply factual assertions, or even contractual promises. They are many other things. There are many non-declarative uses of his language as well. In Elon's case I think an important part of his language is the imperative function of his language --specifically I think they are commands to his team.
When EM says it "should be uploaded next month" he is not just telling current or potential customers or investors a factual statement that may or may not be true. Nor is he making a promise that may or may not be breached next month. Indeed his choice of words -- "should" -- undermine both of those interpretations. Just as the use of the word "expected" does in his prior communications.
Rather a better interpretation of these words is that he is really communicating with his team. "It better be out by then, and if you miss that date, there will be severe consequences. Because this isn't just our own internal deadline that we aspire to, but now I'm making it public so you better do it"
Those who are true scholars of language, not just bitter Caulfieldian pretenders, would have likely seen this point -- the fact that his language is not a simple declarative statement or a mere contractual promise but has other important and primary uses reflecting his situation to try to inspire his team to work hard and fast.
Those who routinely have to manage a team to accomplish a challenging task might also recognize this. There is the common method to drive a team by setting audacious deadlines in order to get more from the team and faster. Even if some of the ambitious goals and deadlines are missed, the end result is faster and better than if longer deadlines or less ambitious goals, were made, and always met.
From 3 Popular Goal-Setting Techniques Managers Should Avoid
I'd rather EM set a goal of awesome by March and miss it with a delivery of terrific in April, than set a goal of competent and ordinary in May and deliver only and exactly competent and ordinary in May.
Keeping that same frame of mind, it is worth considering that EM's acts of speech are not simply factual assertions, or even contractual promises. They are many other things. There are many non-declarative uses of his language as well. In Elon's case I think an important part of his language is the imperative function of his language --specifically I think they are commands to his team.
When EM says it "should be uploaded next month" he is not just telling current or potential customers or investors a factual statement that may or may not be true. Nor is he making a promise that may or may not be breached next month. Indeed his choice of words -- "should" -- undermine both of those interpretations. Just as the use of the word "expected" does in his prior communications.
Rather a better interpretation of these words is that he is really communicating with his team. "It better be out by then, and if you miss that date, there will be severe consequences. Because this isn't just our own internal deadline that we aspire to, but now I'm making it public so you better do it"
Those who are true scholars of language, not just bitter Caulfieldian pretenders, would have likely seen this point -- the fact that his language is not a simple declarative statement or a mere contractual promise but has other important and primary uses reflecting his situation to try to inspire his team to work hard and fast.
Those who routinely have to manage a team to accomplish a challenging task might also recognize this. There is the common method to drive a team by setting audacious deadlines in order to get more from the team and faster. Even if some of the ambitious goals and deadlines are missed, the end result is faster and better than if longer deadlines or less ambitious goals, were made, and always met.
"In 2002, professors Edwin A. Locke and Gary P. Latham, two of the best known academic researchers on goal-setting, wrote an article in American Psychologist summarizing their 35 years of research. Among their findings:
and specifically "It’s the setting of high goals—tough, demanding, stretching—that generates the greatest levels of effort and performance."- Setting specific, difficult goals consistently leads to higher performance than just urging people to do their best.
- High goals generate greater effort than low goals, and the highest or most difficult goals produce the greatest levels of effort and performance.
- Tight deadlines lead to a more rapid work pace than loose deadlines.
- Making a public commitment to a goal enhances personal commitment.
From 3 Popular Goal-Setting Techniques Managers Should Avoid
I'd rather EM set a goal of awesome by March and miss it with a delivery of terrific in April, than set a goal of competent and ordinary in May and deliver only and exactly competent and ordinary in May.
disagree
hos epi to polu
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