Finally, a true test for P90DL vs P85D vs P85+

[Dzanda]

Kind of an ignorant statement. Why is anyone concerned about acceleration. If someone just wants "transportation", they can go buy a $15,000 car. Why do people buy Ferrari's, Lambo's, Porsche's, etc?? Because they want to. If someone wanted a Tesla just for "transportation", then they can buy the 70D. But if you're spending $140,000 for a P90D instead of $75,000 for a 70D, then for that $65,000, you damn good and well want to get what you paid for!!! In this case, based on Tesla's statements, buy a P90DL and you get a 2.8 0-60 and 10.9 1/4 mile car. People buy the P90DL over the 70D BECAUSE THEY WANT THE ACCELERATION! Quite simple. And, Tesla is only focused on acceleration on the "Performance" models because that's what people want. Otherwise, no point in producing a "performance" model of the same car. Same with Mercedes AMG division or BMW's M division, etc..

"ignorant", huh? Whatever.

I get that some people want acceleration...others buy 6-figure cars because they want luxury. Others might buy a Tesla because they like the car and believe that it represents the future. And everyone is entitled to get what they pay for. But that wasn't the point of my question.

Others have addressed my question (thanks). All I'm saying is that quality and reliability are also selling points. I want Tesla to succeed, and I believe that they'll have a better shot when they can offer those in addition to performance.

 

[lolachampcar]

The information I have to date consists of multiple confirmations of roughly an 11.4 second car for customer deliveries and one article from MotorTrend where they get "reliable" 10.9 second 1/4 mile runs. This seems to fit the classic pattern of a "Magazine Car".

 

[jpet]

The information I have to date consists of multiple confirmations of roughly an 11.4 second car for customer deliveries and one article from MotorTrend where they get "reliable" 10.9 second 1/4 mile runs. This seems to fit the classic pattern of a "Magazine Car".

What I find interesting is that nobody that ordered a P90D seems to be complaining about not getting the 10.9 second 1/4 mile.
Is this because they believe there will be an OTA upgrade at some time in the future improving high speed performance to something not seen outside of Tesla?

 

[lolachampcar]

Likely because the P90DL is somewhat new in comparison to the P85D. It will take some time to get the ball rolling as Tesla will be given the benefit of the doubt at first. I believe Tesla knows this and is using the time to get the update out. I suspected as much earlier but the MotorTrend review sealed the deal for me. The pattern seems to be release with most the work done then finish the task with OTA updates. The approach appears to be working with one notable exception.

 

[supratachophobia]

What I find interesting is that nobody that ordered a P90D seems to be complaining about not getting the 10.9 second 1/4 mile.
Is this because they believe there will be an OTA upgrade at some time in the future improving high speed performance to something not seen outside of Tesla?

That sounds oddly familiar....

 

[jcaspar]

Wow. 2.6 0-60 is crazy fast, especially for a family sedan!

 

[Skotty]

I get that some people want acceleration...others buy 6-figure cars because they want luxury. Others might buy a Tesla because they like the car and believe that it represents the future. And everyone is entitled to get what they pay for. But that wasn't the point of my question.

Others have addressed my question (thanks). All I'm saying is that quality and reliability are also selling points. I want Tesla to succeed, and I believe that they'll have a better shot when they can offer those in addition to performance.

It's a mixed bag of interested customers, but personally, I'm with you at this point. The acceleration of the performance models is already ridiculous. People (including me!) thought that my 2011 Mustang GT was crazy fast. It had Ford's new (at the time) 5.0 liter 412 horsepower double overhead cam TiVCT V8. A big, high tech V8 that could push the Mustang to 60 MPH in about 4.5 seconds, quarter mile in about 13.2 at 109 MPH. I really want a Model S, but why does it need to be faster than that? It really doesn't. (yes, there is a huge price differential here, but price aside, when you are handily beating one of the quickest Mustang's ever built -- a car with a 60 year legacy of straight line performance -- you've pretty much nailed it IMO). Hit 60 in 4.0 and I'm already sold big time on performance. HOWEVER, the drive unit failure threads are making me worry. I too want them to focus more on quality and reliability now, especially given the expected selling point of EVs requiring less maintenance than an ICE.

 

[Andyw2100]

I really want a Model S, but why does it need to be faster than that?

Because Tesla said it was and sold it that way.

 

[luvnMyTS]

It's a mixed bag of interested customers, but personally, I'm with you at this point. The acceleration of the performance models is already ridiculous. People (including me!) thought that my 2011 Mustang GT was crazy fast. It had Ford's new (at the time) 5.0 liter 412 horsepower double overhead cam TiVCT V8. A big, high tech V8 that could push the Mustang to 60 MPH in about 4.5 seconds, quarter mile in about 13.2 at 109 MPH. I really want a Model S, but why does it need to be faster than that? It really doesn't. (yes, there is a huge price differential here, but price aside, when you are handily beating one of the quickest Mustang's ever built -- a car with a 60 year legacy of straight line performance -- you've pretty much nailed it IMO). Hit 60 in 4.0 and I'm already sold big time on performance. HOWEVER, the drive unit failure threads are making me worry. I too want them to focus more on quality and reliability now, especially given the expected selling point of EVs requiring less maintenance than an ICE.

Of course no street legal car "needs" to be that fast. That's not the point. They make "slower" versions of the car for those that have no interest in the added performance. But, just like almost every single car maker out there, they also make higher performance versions of their premium car because some people "want" it, not "need" it, but just simply want it. And they're willing to pay A LOT more for that added performance. But, when those that are willing to pay for that added performance, especially at a cost of $33,000, they damn good and well want to get what they paid for. That's the point. It's not about what a car "needs", it's about getting what was advertised and what you paid for. At this point in time, P90DL buyers have not gotten what they paid for. Hopefully, as many have said, Tesla will fix the issue and be able to provide an OTA update to get the car to perform as advertised. Then everyone will be happy. If they are not able to do that, then Tesla could take a hit to its reputation for not delivering as promised. But to say that existing P90DL owners should have to pay another $5,000, as some have said, to get the required hardware to make the car perform as it was originally advertised is also ridiculous. If someone ponied up the extra $13,000 for the Ludicrous and Battery upgrade for the purpose of getting a 2.8 0-60 and 10.9 1/4 mile car, then they should not have to pay a dime extra for the car to perform at that level.

 

[Han Chen]

"ignorant", huh? Whatever.

I get that some people want acceleration...others buy 6-figure cars because they want luxury. Others might buy a Tesla because they like the car and believe that it represents the future. And everyone is entitled to get what they pay for. But that wasn't the point of my question.

Others have addressed my question (thanks). All I'm saying is that quality and reliability are also selling points. I want Tesla to succeed, and I believe that they'll have a better shot when they can offer those in addition to performance.

Because reliability, while important, doesn't get you viral videos of grandma's swearing when their son takes them for a spin in their new Model S.

 

[Micro1394]

If someone ponied up the extra $13,000 for the Ludicrous and Battery upgrade for the purpose of getting a 2.8 0-60 and 10.9 1/4 mile car, then they should not have to pay a dime extra for the car to perform at that level.

This.

 

[Skotty]

I think the lesson to be learned here is that Tesla needs to under promise. I could have told them that back in 1999, when I got a free new polished intake manifold and free flow exhaust for my 1999 Mustang Cobra as part of a recall because it didn't make the advertised performance, even though the difference with and without was negligible.

Take a car, lets say it can do 0-60 in 3.2 reliably. Some builds might do 3.0, almost all do 3.2, and a few low performers do 3.4. Advertise it as 3.0 or 3.4 0-60, and I bet sales are pretty much the same. The only difference is, if you advertise 3.0, everyone is pissed off calling for recalls, advertise 3.4 and everyone is super happy as most are faster than advertised.

Hopefully Tesla learns.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I think the lesson to be learned here is that Tesla needs to under promise. I could have told them that back in 1999, when I got a free new polished intake manifold and free flow exhaust for my 1999 Mustang Cobra as part of a recall because it didn't make the advertised performance, even though the difference with and without was negligible.

Take a car, lets say it can do 0-60 in 3.2 reliably. Some builds might do 3.0, almost all do 3.2, and a few low performers do 3.4. Advertise it as 3.0 or 3.4 0-60, and I bet sales are pretty much the same. The only difference is, if you advertise 3.0, everyone is pissed off calling for recalls, advertise 3.4 and everyone is super happy as most are faster than advertised.

Hopefully Tesla learns.

The 0-60 has been met (dragtimes did a vbox with 2.8 seconds). The 1/4 mile however have not yet (best so far is just barely under 11.4 so at least a .4 second gap to barely under 11 seconds to get a 10.9). Given Motor Trend tested a car where 10.9 was possible, I would say at least in this case it seems likely it is a software thing.

I don't want to bring it off topic, but this is different from the other case where it was *never* demonstrated or promised that there would be a *specific* higher top end performance spec that customer cars weren't able to meet. When Motor Trend had an early example of the P85D, the 1/4 mile spec was repeatable by others and matched what Tesla promised.

 

[yak-55]

As I learned on this site ... "videos (of customers cars) or it didn't happen". So far, people are simply paying for vaporware with the Ludicrous upgrade. Tesla's history of "creative" promises and "delayed" (or failed) delivery make this risky and perhpas imprudent. But, if you just have to have the latest thing ... its your money (until you give it to Tesla).

 

[lolachampcar]

I think P90DL buyers are getting Ludicrous Lite. The performance is better (than the P85D) but, lacking making the MotorTrend 1/4 mile time, customers are not getting the full value for their Ludicrous $. Even more telling for me is that Tesla KNOWS that production cars are not providing full value and have been completely silent on the issue. Remember, this is a company that literally can not wait to yell from the highest mountain when they have some good news so they know how to communicate.

 

[luvnMyTS]

I just ordered a P90D yesterday. Chose to forego the Ludicrous option at this time. Store told me it can always be added later. So that being the case, wasn't worth the $10,000 gamble to gain very little performance. If Tesla eventually corrects it to perform as advertised, then I'll do the upgrade. Until then, I'm not going to let Tesla earn interest on my $10,000 until they're ready to deliver what was promised. Think how much money they made on all the $40,000 deposits paid 2 years ago for Model X reservations!! Tesla is good at separating you from your money and then making you wait for what you paid for.

 

[AWDtsla]

I just ordered a P90D yesterday. Chose to forego the Ludicrous option at this time. Store told me it can always be added later. So that being the case, wasn't worth the $10,000 gamble to gain very little performance. If Tesla eventually corrects it to perform as advertised, then I'll do the upgrade. Until then, I'm not going to let Tesla earn interest on my $10,000 until they're ready to deliver what was promised. Think how much money they made on all the $40,000 deposits paid 2 years ago for Model X reservations!! Tesla is good at separating you from your money and then making you wait for what you paid for.

This would be a good argument if interest rates weren't near 0%.

 

[thegruf]

I just ordered a P90D yesterday. Chose to forego the Ludicrous option at this time. Store told me it can always be added later...

You might want to double check that (and get it in writing including price)

Existing P85D owners have been offered the Ludicrous update discounted, but afaik new cars will not be offered the upgrade.

 

[lolachampcar]

Perhaps we are learning that all 90 KW-Hr packs have uprated contractors and fuses???

 

[gsxdsm]

I just ordered a P90D yesterday. Chose to forego the Ludicrous option at this time. Store told me it can always be added later. So that being the case, wasn't worth the $10,000 gamble to gain very little performance. If Tesla eventually corrects it to perform as advertised, then I'll do the upgrade. Until then, I'm not going to let Tesla earn interest on my $10,000 until they're ready to deliver what was promised. Think how much money they made on all the $40,000 deposits paid 2 years ago for Model X reservations!! Tesla is good at separating you from your money and then making you wait for what you paid for.

Which store told you this? The Mission Viejo, CA and Costa Mesa stores, as well as NA Corporate Sales all confirmed with 100% certainty that Ludicrous could NOT be added after the fact for a P90D.

You should absolutely get this in writing before your order confirms.