used p100ds now are dirt cheap. What's going on?

[Ostrichsak]

I mean literally every one of those is easily replaceable by someone who has just a bit of mechanical knowledge

My original point that paying a mechanic to check out a used Tesla is the easiest money he or she ever made. How much stuff needs to be checked out on a vehicle that doesn't even have an official maintenance schedule?

 

[brainhouston]

So we're going to cite Tesla's self-proclaimed "Fabergé egg" of complexity (Elon's own words) which also happens to be their lowest selling unit by far for our basis during a conversation about complexity? Seems a belt self-serving, don't ya think? Especially when the OP was specifically about Model S, not Model X. Two entirely different machines in terms of complexity and everyone knows this.

Even comparing that vehicle to a typical ICE is dramatically different in terms of moving parts & parts complexity though. Typical ICE vehicles still have more buttons alone than Teslas have in moving parts total. Saying a Tesla has "hundreds" of interior moving parts is incorrect.

Talking of basic statistics, more moving parts means more potential points of failure. ICE cars have significantly more moving parts and any one of which failing could leave the vehicle in operable and the motorist stranded. We shouldn't use hyperbole when comparing this exposure to failure possibilities in the ICE v. Tesla conversation because the Tesla is dramatically lower in the moving part count.

well i found the articles
for new plaid S/X its 100/118

Electric Motor Counts – TeslaTap

teslatap.com

and for non-plaid (not sure of years) ones, 62/70

Model S Motors Count – TeslaTap

teslatap.com

model 3 actually has 69 lol (first link, select 3 tab)

but the only diff between ice vs EV is the gas engine n transmission/driveline (if equipped), the rest of moving components are the same (wheels, suspension, axles/differential, doors/handles/locks, pedals, etc.. u get the point..)
how often do u see engines/transmissions fail these days?.. fairly low, i'd say on par with HV fails...

and yes Tesla has less buttons due to touch screen but some ppl actually hate that cause if one button fails in a car u have all other working, if touch screen fails u have nothing... and i also don't recall last time i had an interior button fail in the car...

just my 2c...

 

[vickh]

my understanding is that all P100D's were manufactured after AP1... AP2 with the cameras that can be upgraded to HW3. Should also upgrade MCU to MCU2

Current upgrade costs?

Also can these have transferable FUSC? (valuable for future transfer offers)

 

[n2mb_racing]

well i found the articles
for new plaid S/X its 100/118

Electric Motor Counts – TeslaTap

teslatap.com

and for non-plaid (not sure of years) ones, 62/70

Model S Motors Count – TeslaTap

teslatap.com

model 3 actually has 69 lol (first link, select 3 tab)

but the only diff between ice vs EV is the gas engine n transmission/driveline (if equipped), the rest of moving components are the same (wheels, suspension, axles/differential, doors/handles/locks, pedals, etc.. u get the point..)
how often do u see engines/transmissions fail these days?.. fairly low, i'd say on par with HV fails...

and yes Tesla has less buttons due to touch screen but some ppl actually hate that cause if one button fails in a car u have all other working, if touch screen fails u have nothing... and i also don't recall last time i had an interior button fail in the car...

just my 2c...

That's pretty funny that we have 100 motors in the Plaid S.
Remind me to not own this car out of warranty.

 

[Ostrichsak]

well i found the articles
for new plaid S/X its 100/118

Electric Motor Counts – TeslaTap

teslatap.com

and for non-plaid (not sure of years) ones, 62/70

Model S Motors Count – TeslaTap

teslatap.com

model 3 actually has 69 lol (first link, select 3 tab)

but the only diff between ice vs EV is the gas engine n transmission/driveline (if equipped), the rest of moving components are the same (wheels, suspension, axles/differential, doors/handles/locks, pedals, etc.. u get the point..)
how often do u see engines/transmissions fail these days?.. fairly low, i'd say on par with HV fails...

and yes Tesla has less buttons due to touch screen but some ppl actually hate that cause if one button fails in a car u have all other working, if touch screen fails u have nothing... and i also don't recall last time i had an interior button fail in the car...

just my 2c...

So we're talking 100 if we literally count every single motor (critical or not) and not hundredS. Big difference and that was my original point. The post in question said: "there are hundreds of moving parts in the interior to break" which simply isn't true and even if it were, very few are actually critical to vehicle operation. Those are the important moving parts of which ICE cars have hundreds... on the conservative estimate.

You then go on to act like ICE cars don't have more moving parts than an EV. "The only difference..." and then you proceed to yadda yadda yadda the most important part(s) as if there couldn't be any moving parts there. The reality is that each system in an ICE car has entire corporate departments dedicated to them... that's how complex they are.

If the link you posted to lists four electric motors for the side mirrors alone, how many moving parts do you think it takes to make an internal combustion engine function? What about the supporting systems such as heating, cooling, fuel, air intake, turbo, battery charging and management, exhaust systems, etc. I could go on but you get the point.

If you compare the actual critical moving parts of an EV like a Tesla to that of a typical ICE vehicle it's dozens (on the high end) to literally hundreds. This is why it's unfair to ICE vehicles to compare this topic specifically at all because the parts count is dramatically different. In fact, there's an entire industry that sells parts for ICE cars that is losing massive market share with a grave future projected as EV adoption ramps up.

Your stance of "people prefer buttons to screen" is the most laughable yet. You do realize that every physical button in car is a moving part, right? Have you seen how many physical buttons legacy manufacturers put in vehicles? It's unreal. Not only is that button forever locked in it's function but it can fail and then that function is no longer available.

My point is that if the goal is to have an objective conversation about EV (Tesla) v. ICE vehicles, the easiest way is to omit all moving parts that are similar between the two. All cars have adjustable side mirrors so why bother focusing on those? If you do that, the list of critical moving parts of a Tesla versus that of an ICE car is absurdly one-sided.

This thread isn't about this debate though so I'm not going to get into this off topic conversation any further. These posts read like hit posts from oil investing EV haters. The OP was asking about a mechanic and I know of no mechanic that will take the side mirror apart in an inspection to examine the current status of each moving part. That's just goofy to even insinuate to make some sort of an odd pro-ICE claim.

 

[Cheburashka]

As I remember those early P100D also had issues with the large rear motor. Another very expensive repair.

 

[Full Monty]

As I remember those early P100D also had issues with the large rear motor. Another very expensive repair.

Let’s be very conservative and round the numbers off to say it’s 20 moving parts in a Tesla that require the car to roll. What are those moving parts? Here’s one way of looking at it:

• Single-speed transmission
• Cooling system pumps
• Fans for the battery and inverter
• HVAC system (fan, compressor, etc.)
• Air suspension (assuming your model has that)
• Steering rack

I have a 2014 Model S P85. Had that infamous whining noise and pulled the trigger to have it replaced by tesla with the new Upgraded LDU with Coolant Delete ($5800). I am so happy. its like a new car and it drives like new and its fast. Remember, these EV's do not have all the vibrations, fumes and thousands of moving parts that ware out and degrade entire ICE vehicles. Battery still holding strong (230 Mi Range at 100%) To me its one of the most undervalued cars and you can literally change out all the other parts and upgrade as you go and not have to get stuck with $1000 monthly payment and car is paid for to enjoy. This is my experience with older tesla S model. 0-60 in 4.5 sec !!

 

[vickh]

Let’s be very conservative and round the numbers off to say it’s 20 moving parts in a Tesla that require the car to roll. What are those moving parts? Here’s one way of looking at it:

• Single-speed transmission
• Cooling system pumps
• Fans for the battery and inverter
• HVAC system (fan, compressor, etc.)
• Air suspension (assuming your model has that)
• Steering rack

I have a 2014 Model S P85. Had that infamous whining noise and pulled the trigger to have it replaced by tesla with the new Upgraded LDU with Coolant Delete ($5800). I am so happy. its like a new car and it drives like new and its fast. Remember, these EV's do not have all the vibrations, fumes and thousands of moving parts that ware out and degrade entire ICE vehicles. Battery still holding strong (230 Mi Range at 100%) To me its one of the most undervalued cars and you can literally change out all the other parts and upgrade as you go and not have to get stuck with $1000 monthly payment and car is paid for to enjoy. This is my experience with older tesla S model. 0-60 in 4.5 sec !!

Right the modular nature of upgrades is great as long as TSLA continues to support it. esp for a 10 y.o car.

 

[Cheburashka]

Let’s be very conservative and round the numbers off to say it’s 20 moving parts in a Tesla that require the car to roll. What are those moving parts? Here’s one way of looking at it:

• Single-speed transmission
• Cooling system pumps
• Fans for the battery and inverter
• HVAC system (fan, compressor, etc.)
• Air suspension (assuming your model has that)
• Steering rack

I have a 2014 Model S P85. Had that infamous whining noise and pulled the trigger to have it replaced by tesla with the new Upgraded LDU with Coolant Delete ($5800). I am so happy. its like a new car and it drives like new and its fast. Remember, these EV's do not have all the vibrations, fumes and thousands of moving parts that ware out and degrade entire ICE vehicles. Battery still holding strong (230 Mi Range at 100%) To me its one of the most undervalued cars and you can literally change out all the other parts and upgrade as you go and not have to get stuck with $1000 monthly payment and car is paid for to enjoy. This is my experience with older tesla S model. 0-60 in 4.5 sec !!

So what? Non moving parts break all the time too. Also I don't think Tesla has a separate tranny, it's part of the DU.

 

[Cheburashka]

Right the modular nature of upgrades is great as long as TSLA continues to support it. esp for a 10 y.o car.

No it is not. Very few shops are able to fix batteries or drive units. Tesla replaces the entire component and doesn't even sell spare parts for internal components to the motor or battery.

 

[tm1v2]

but the only diff between ice vs EV is the gas engine n transmission/driveline (if equipped), the rest of moving components are the same (wheels, suspension, axles/differential, doors/handles/locks, pedals, etc.. u get the point..)

@brainhouston Agreed, that stuff can all wear out and break on a Tesla same as any car. It's worth inspecting, or just carefully listening as you test drive.

Of course even if that stuff is good the day you buy your used high mileage Model S, I promise you those control bushings will wear out sooner or later...

how often do u see engines/transmissions fail these days?.. fairly low, i'd say on par with HV fails...

Mechanical reliability varies wildly by model, and it plays a huge factor in used car values (aside from maybe sports cars), alongside ease and cost of repairs. Not many people find value in those fancy over-engineered German cars once the warranty is up and reliability becomes the owner's problem.

and yes Tesla has less buttons due to touch screen but some ppl actually hate that cause if one button fails in a car u have all other working, if touch screen fails u have nothing... and i also don't recall last time i had an interior button fail in the car...

Mechanical buttons absolutely do break, I've come across plenty, in cars and otherwise. Heck the last brand new ICE car I ever bothered to test drive had a broken button.

You do have a point though. As the owner of an MCU1 Model S that went through the infamous flash memory failure and recall, I can attest that an inoperable touchscreen computer on a Tesla is another level of frustrating vs some button failures. Some cars have buttons that are just as critical though, where a failure would be as bad or worse than a Tesla touchscreen failure.

Thankfully Tesla seems to have their MCU reliability in a good place these days. Even MCU1 post-recall.

 

[jmcdono362]

What? AP1 always tried to drive off the highway when the lines got bad. HW3 is way better. It's night and day. It's much more annoying with nags, but way better at driving. I haven't driven HW4 yet.

That is not true anymore. I still have a 2015 Model S. AP1 will follow the car in front when lines disappear and when no car is there to follow, it will give a slight ping pong effect to basically warn the driver it needs help. It never gives up trying and always tries to stay smooth as possible.

 

[n2mb_racing]

That is not true anymore. I still have a 2015 Model S. AP1 will follow the car in front when lines disappear and when no car is there to follow, it will give a slight ping pong effect to basically warn the driver it needs help. It never gives up trying and always tries to stay smooth as possible.

Yeah, it was when the lines got bad with no car in front. It would drive right off the road. It would follow the ghost old lines during construction, directly into a barrier.

 

[drhombus]

I called recell. They'll do a battery replacement for 10k with a 4 year 50,000 mile warranty for a p100d. Same warranty as Tesla offers at half the price in total. This is why I decided I'd be interested in buying one now. Yes it doesn't list it on their site they'll do p100ds but I called them and they told me that is the price to replace one.

Afaik, Recell would swap the battery to a 75kwh battery. It wouldn't be a p100d anymore and will likely lose performance. I remember hearing from somewhere they're only doing 75kwh battery swaps for model s. That's why the price is so affordable

 

[gaswalla]

10k for a third party battery and you lose ludicrous, range, and general performance? that's for someone who is desperate.
Maybe if they did it for labor only, less than 1k.

 

[Raroia]

If you are like me and despise faux leather, sunroof and love ventilated seats there are some absolute bargains 2016 to 2017 right now. I agree with another poster, 75D/100D/P100D (especially P100D) may be the best value used car in the history of cars, what else can even compare? Add SC01 on top of that and potentially drive "free" forever?

I can't be the only one who has sat in a bunch of model S/X and found that late 2016 to 2018 seem to be VERY well built compared to even the new ones...

 

[Msicario]

I was looking at Teslas just for fun see if there's anything affordable and was kind of shocked to see how low the prices of p100ds are now. This used p100d is only 31k, under 100k miles, 0 accidents, and 1 owner. The cheapest one I saw was $22,000 but it was over 100k miles. Is this mainly because of the interest rates driving down prices and Tesla lowering their prices for new cars? I rode in a p85d with ludicrous mode enabled and that was fast enough for me where it blew my mind so I can imagine the p100d being even crazier. I really only care about 0-60 time. The plaid is just out of my reach price range but correct me if I'm wrong but on the street without 1 foot of rollout included I believe they get almost the same 0-60 time? I saw these two videos testing both vehicles 0-60 on the street here is the one of the plaid and this guy this testing the p100d the best the plaid got was 2.47 and I believe the p100d got 2.5 seconds. I know top speed is faster because the plaid but I don't care about that. The only time I'll be going over 60 is on the highway and not much over it.
Besides that my only concern since these cars I'm looking at are mainly from 2017, will the battery degradation cause it to have a slower 0-60 speed or does that only happen if the battery is really degraded badly.
Also a little off topic but I bought a 1995 eclipse gsx 5 speed hoping to put 1000 hp which is surprising not that much maybe 30,000 at the most in mods and there's one called the red demon that does 0-60 in 1.5 seconds but has around 1800 hp. Yeah I could do that and have a faster modified gasoline car as we've seen modified cars like GT-Rs beat absolutely everything at the track having like 3000 hp but the model s is such a nicer looking car and better technology so I'll probably leave it stock and keep it since it's a collectors car now. The annoying thing about the eclipse is that it's a fast looking sports car and SO many people would try to race me or drive faster and more aggressive when they saw my car like they had something to prove which was extremely annoying when I'm just trying to drive my car like a normal person. Also more annoying is when someone's going slow on the highway, you go to pass them, now they all of a sudden want to speed up and not let you pass like a child. Then I'll try to go faster and get some distance because I figure they'll slow down again and they'll refuse to slow down until they're in front of me again.

I’m of the same mindset; I purchased my MYP for only one reason; Speed From Red light to another Red light… Fun kicking but..

 

[gaswalla]

The 2016 p100d will still smoke a new MYP

 

[itch808]

The 2016 p100d will still smoke a new MYP

Definitely, but I don't any MYP owners are thinking otherwise. Most, myself included, have a MYP for the utility.

 

[vickh]

If you are like me and despise faux leather, sunroof and love ventilated seats there are some absolute bargains 2016 to 2017 right now. I agree with another poster, 75D/100D/P100D (especially P100D) may be the best value used car in the history of cars, what else can even compare? Add SC01 on top of that and potentially drive "free" forever?

I can't be the only one who has sat in a bunch of model S/X and found that late 2016 to 2018 seem to be VERY well built compared to even the new ones...

My only worry is the pesky falcon wings for the X. A CPO failed on delivery! Rep claimed it was b/c of the sun+sensors??

That being said I'm interested in SCO1 (might make us take more road trips!) Q is the best way to find/buy them given TSLA's history of scrubbing it for new owners?