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Falcon-wing doors in snow

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Norway is one of Tesla's major markets. After over three years of Model S production, don't you think that Tesla engineering is aware of the need to extensively test new mechanical designs in harsh winter climates? I am sure they are fully aware by now of what snow and ice are and how they effect their products.

I'm sure snow has been considered.

I was just thinking of what Consumer Reports had to say about Japanese and American cars back when Japanese cars were beating American cars in almost every category. There was one area where American cars continued to be superior to Japanese cars and that was in corrosion resistance. All American cars back in those days were designed in Michigan which salts the roads in the winter. Because the design engineers lived in that environment, they gave better consideration to protecting the cars they designed from salt damage. Because the Japanese engineers didn't live somewhere where salt on the roads was an issue, corrosion resistance wasn't on their minds as much as the American engineers.

Tesla does all it's design in a place that doesn't get snow (except for a couple of freak times in the last century), it's possible they overlooked something engineers from a snowy climate might not have missed. As someone who has done a lot of software designs, there is almost always something you didn't think of that becomes obvious when someone in a different situation and mindset sees it. That's why you do extensive testing, but even then things slip through.

Nobody will know for sure until some people live through some winters with a Model X. It may be completely thought through and no problems, or something might crop up in the real world. We just don't know.
 
Tesla designs their vehicles for all climates.

I'm not sure what time period you're referring to exactly; in the 70's Japanese cars did tend to rust a lot (but then again, so did American cars), but at that time they weren't considered superior to American cars. In the 80's the tide started turning and in the 90's it was becoming known that Japanese vehicles' reliability and build quality was exceeding American cars by a large margin. By that time they were certainly applying copious corrosion resistance to the chassis as a matter of course. Modern vehicles don't tend to rust, regardless what ethnicity it's designers are.
 
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Tesla designs their vehicles for all climates.

I'm not sure what time period you're referring to exactly; in the 70's Japanese cars did tend to rust a lot (but then again, so did American cars), but at that time they weren't considered superior to American cars. In the 80's the tide started turning and in the 90's it was becoming known that Japanese vehicles' reliability and build quality was exceeding American cars by a large margin. By that time they were certainly applying copious corrosion resistance to the chassis as a matter of course. Modern vehicles don't tend to rust, regardless what ethnicity it's designers are.

When I was researching for my 1992 car Consumer Reports was giving credit to American car designs for better corrosion resistance, but not much else.
 
By the 90's all mainstream vehicles (excepting small volume imports like Alfa Romeo, Renault, Triumph, etc) were using galvanized steel, zinc coatings, and included super long rust-through warranties, (7 year 100,000 mile was common by 1990). Honda and Toyota were more than on-par with American brands at the time in that regard. Anyway, this tangent has run it's course and we can get back to arguing over whether the Model X will cause Higgs Boson particles to destroy the universe if a snowflake gets jammed in the hinge.
 
By the 90's all mainstream vehicles (excepting small volume imports like Alfa Romeo, Renault, Triumph, etc) were using galvanized steel, zinc coatings, and included super long rust-through warranties, (7 year 100,000 mile was common by 1990). Honda and Toyota were more than on-par with American brands at the time in that regard. Anyway, this tangent has run it's course and we can get back to arguing over whether the Model X will cause Higgs Boson particles to destroy the universe if a snowflake gets jammed in the hinge.

ie more important stuff :smile:
 
What are your thoughts? And please don't respond "Tesla has tested this". They have not, because the final design has not been ready until maybe few days (if it even is ready now).

Not sure why "design isn't finalized" has to equate to "Tesla hasn't tested it." Even assuming that the design isn't final, perhaps it's being tweaked BECAUSE of field testing. In fact, that is the most plausible assumption.
 
Norway is one of Tesla's major markets. After over three years of Model S production, don't you think that Tesla engineering is aware of the need to extensively test new mechanical designs in harsh winter climates? I am sure they are fully aware by now of what snow and ice are and how they effect their products.

Well, Falcon Wing Doors idea was borne out of a need for better access to 2nd and 3rd row (plus marketing) and it may have been an overriding factor over such 'inconveniences' as snow. Every design has it's pluses and minuses and one can only tweak it so much.

It's pretty much given that Falcon Wing Doors will gather snow and ice within upper seal where traditional or sliding doors would not. We all hope that Tesla has designed seals and gutters to mitigate that for most circumstances but that's not given - especially since Tesla finalized electric actuators, hinges, seals and latches most likely just this summer.
 
Well, Falcon Wing Doors idea was borne out of a need for better access to 2nd and 3rd row (plus marketing) and it may have been an overriding factor over such 'inconveniences' as snow. Every design has it's pluses and minuses and one can only tweak it so much.

It's pretty much given that Falcon Wing Doors will gather snow and ice within upper seal where traditional or sliding doors would not. We all hope that Tesla has designed seals and gutters to mitigate that for most circumstances but that's not given - especially since Tesla finalized electric actuators, hinges, seals and latches most likely just this summer.

Why is it given?
 
Why is it given?

In short, because of gravity and friction. When snow accumulates around the door opening - which one would expect that it will since roof is flat - once door opens some of the snow will be either blown in by wind or collapse into the upper gutter. I read that gutters have hydrophobic coating which will definitively help with evacuating partially melted snow down the gutter but on the other hand it's an indication that engineers have recognized it as being an issue and designed to mitigate it (note that hydrophobic coatings wear out so I'm curious how they designed it to be long lasting). It's all speculation at this point (except gravity and friction part) and I'm looking forward to see how it will work in the 'wild'.
 
In short, because of gravity and friction. When snow accumulates around the door opening - which one would expect that it will since roof is flat - once door opens some of the snow will be either blown in by wind or collapse into the upper gutter. I read that gutters have hydrophobic coating which will definitively help with evacuating partially melted snow down the gutter but on the other hand it's an indication that engineers have recognized it as being an issue and designed to mitigate it (note that hydrophobic coatings wear out so I'll be interesting to see how long it'll last.). It's all speculation at this point (except gravity and friction part) and I'm looking forward to see how it will work in the 'wild'.


This is why snow is usually removed from the roof of the car before opening the door, regardless of if the door is a regular door opening outward, a falcon wing door or a sliding door. Unless one enjoys getting the car full of snow, and in the case of the falcon door in addition possible impaction of snow in the fold(s).
 
This is why snow is usually removed from the roof of the car before opening the door, regardless of if the door is a regular door opening outward, a falcon wing door or a sliding door. Unless one enjoys getting the car full of snow, and in the case of the falcon door in addition possible impaction of snow in the fold(s).

Comparing traditional doors to Falcon Wing Doors is like comparing apples to oranges since opening shape and door motion is quite different. For example, I don't think anyone would mind couple of cm of snow on their roof when opening regular doors but it could be an issue with Falcon Wing Doors.
 
In short, because of gravity and friction. When snow accumulates around the door opening - which one would expect that it will since roof is flat - once door opens some of the snow will be either blown in by wind or collapse into the upper gutter. I read that gutters have hydrophobic coating which will definitively help with evacuating partially melted snow down the gutter but on the other hand it's an indication that engineers have recognized it as being an issue and designed to mitigate it (note that hydrophobic coatings wear so let's hope is made to last). It's all speculation at this point (except gravity and friction part) and I'm looking forward to see how it will work in the 'wild'.
Exactly, speculation.

There are a few scenarios where it will be the most worrisome if it is not designed 'good enough'.

This is the worst snow scenario that came to mind: Heavy snow where there is a foot or more on top of the car and breezy. I say a foot or more since less most likely won't be enough to fall into the opening to cause a problem.

NOTE: I'll be preheating the car anyway, so when I arrive 5 minutes later at the car and I am obliged, by law in every state, to clear the snow from the car so as not to blind cars behind me.

But lets say I open the falcons anyway and it is breezy. Well, the snow has to be "dry" for any to blow into the car and possibly gum up the catch rail. Even if a bunch falls, dry snow is very little water and easily melts on a slightly warm surface, then drains away. This is what I think will happen with little actually getting in the car.

If wet snow snow and breezy a big chunk could fall into the gutter or catch rail and gum up the mechanism. If this happens, which is the worst case scenario (IMO) then you'd have to manually clean the area to allow the door to close, most likely, as wet snow contains substantially more water and is harder to melt with a slightly warm surface.

Just don't see a way that this will be a big issue in most cases unless you commonly get to the car with a foot of wet snow on the car and have to open the falcons prior to or just not wiping the roof off...and it is breezy or you are parked on a high grade slope.

This gets me thinking where I'm going to keep my snow/ice removal tool/brush...most likely in the frunk since I think opening the frunk would allow the snow to more easily be removed anyway and avoids the risk of any getting in the car all together.
 
Comparing traditional doors to Falcon Wing Doors is like comparing apples to oranges since opening shape and door motion is quite different. For example, I don't think anyone would mind couple of cm of snow on their roof when opening regular doors but it could be an issue with Falcon Wing Doors.

I mind when I drive behind people on the road/highway and get a windshield full of blowing snow or ice chips that impede my ability to see. And no, I don't typically tailgate. What is the difficulty in simply brushing off the roof of the car/around door hinges? I've been doing it for a few decades now and it's never killed me. And yes, even a couple of cms of snow on the roof of the car with other types of doors can cause me, my car seats or the floor of my car to be snowed on if I open the doors without cleaning off the vehicle first. It's as if people are looking for ways to cause themselves grief - darn it, I can't put my shoes back on when I've pulled them off my feet prior to unlacing them. What a terrible shoe design.
 
I don't want to seem conceited in any way, but it's kind of telling that many of those who have posted worries are from places like Mexico, Trinidad and what-not. While people living in Norway, Canada and the like seem less worried.
 
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C'mon, Johan! When we Alaskans take our Model X to Trinidad and it snows on it...and us....we've got REAL PROBLEMS!

Only if you forget to brush the snow off the roof ;)

Also before it snows there I think both Trinidad and Tobago will be far below sea level.

Time to bring this:

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In short, because of gravity and friction. When snow accumulates around the door opening - which one would expect that it will since roof is flat - once door opens some of the snow will be either blown in by wind or collapse into the upper gutter. I read that gutters have hydrophobic coating which will definitively help with evacuating partially melted snow down the gutter but on the other hand it's an indication that engineers have recognized it as being an issue and designed to mitigate it (note that hydrophobic coatings wear out so I'm curious how they designed it to be long lasting). It's all speculation at this point (except gravity and friction part) and I'm looking forward to see how it will work in the 'wild'.

Freezing rain will be a pain to deal with or a thaw/frost cycle when there was snow on the roof of the car.