Elon: FSD Beta tweets

[Daniel in SD]

I'm not "interpreting" anything. I'm using literally what he said

You are the one adding a bunch of text beyond his actual writing to reveal his SECRET HIDDEN MEANING you imagine exists.



I mean, he's been wrong every other time he's claimed they'd remove the beta tag, going back years and years- so why not this time?

But again, removing it or leaving it, either way, has no legal meaning of any kind

I'm not "interpreting" anything. I'm using literally what he said

You are the one adding a bunch of text beyond his actual writing to reveal his SECRET HIDDEN MEANING you imagine exists.



I mean, he's been wrong every other time he's claimed they'd remove the beta tag, going back years and years- so why not this time?

But again, removing it or leaving it, either way, has no legal meaning of any kind

The statements “FSD V12 is beta” and “FSD V12 won’t be beta” are not contradictory.
He’s been wrong about removing the beta tag because they haven’t achieved the safety level required for unsupervised FSD. It all makes sense.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

You are the one adding a bunch of text beyond his actual writing to reveal his SECRET HIDDEN MEANING you imagine exists.

What are you talking about? Elon said “v12 won’t be beta.” That logically doesn’t preclude the existence of v12 beta! And that was clear at the time he said it. There’s absolutely no hidden meaning required to be added.

I mean, the "v12 won't be beta" thing is already disproven.

That will only be disproven when v13 comes around and v12 beta persists with the beta label.

 

[Knightshade]

No idea how I'm the only one whose vision seems to work

https://twitter.com/x/status/1673584536167301122

Omar says "FSD beta 12 maybe later this year"
Elon replies "Version 12 won't be beta"

Except, of course, when version 12 came later that year (late November) it was (and still is) beta.

So Elons prediction was, once again, wrong.

Plus- as a reminder, the term beta has no actual legal meaning.

So between this and the dude who keeps giving me disagrees for pointing out the fact self-driving requires no regulatory approval in like a dozen US states, y'all are picking some of the most bizarre hills I've seen folks on here pick to die on in a while...

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

y'all are picking some of the most bizarre hills I've seen folks on here pick to die on in a while...

Omar says "FSD beta 12 maybe later this year"
Elon replies "Version 12 won't be beta"

There's nothing contradictory here. Elon simply said Version 12 won't be beta. That is TBD. Certainly there is version of the software called FSD Beta v12. But that doesn't necessarily mean the statement "version 12 won't be beta" has been disproven.

It's not a hill. It's just interpretation of what he meant. I agree it could be read the way you're reading it, but it definitely doesn't have to be. Sadly language is ambiguous. There are two hills.

 

[terranx]

There's nothing contradictory here. Elon simply said Version 12 won't be beta. That is TBD. Certainly there is version of the software called FSD Beta v12. But that doesn't necessarily mean the statement "version 12 won't be beta" has been disproven.

It's not a hill. It's just interpretation of what he meant. I agree it could be read the way you're reading it, but it definitely doesn't have to be. Sadly language is ambiguous. There are two hills.

With Elons track record, you’re going with they mean something else by V12 instead of the simpler and more likely explanation that he lied again?

 

[Daniel in SD]

With Elons track record, you’re going with they mean something else by V12 instead of the simpler and more likely explanation that he lied again?

FSD V12 is currently beta and FSD V12 will not be beta at some point in the future. I agree that as a response to the Whole Mars tweet it is confusing. I don't think he meant that there would be no public beta of V12.

Anyway, I don't think automakers want to license supervised FSD, beta label or not.

 

[terranx]

FSD V12 is currently beta and FSD V12 will not be beta at some point in the future. I agree that as a response to the Whole Mars tweet it is confusing. I don't think he meant that there would be no public beta of V12.

Anyway, I don't think automakers want to license supervised FSD, beta label or not.

I don’t see how you can read that interpretation from those tweets. I think he was just lying as usual.

Agreed, no manufacturer is dumb enough to license FSD. They know it’s all smoke and mirrors.

 

[Knightshade]

I agree that as a response to the Whole Mars tweet it is confusing.

it's only confusing if you pretend it doesn't mean what it literally says, and that Elons claim has already proven wrong as a result.

It's not like this is some weird aberration we simply MUST find excuses to pretend doesn't say what it clearly says... he's been super reliably wrong about almost every FSD related promise for years and years now. This is simply more of the same.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

With Elons track record, you’re going with they mean something else by V12 instead of the simpler and more likely explanation that he lied again?

I’m not ruling out that he lied, but I think that is TBD. Certainly would not be surprised. I don’t think he knows what he is Tweeting half the time. Either that or he specializes in intentionally ambiguous Tweets. I don’t really care much which it is.

I don’t really know how they will ever be able to remove the Beta label from v12, though I guess they can just make it mean whatever they want, so can justify removing the label for whatever reason. (Though some might think the removal of the label would mean something significant, I’m not convinced that it will have any significance in future. I am not even sure what it means now.)

 

[terranx]

I’m not ruling out that he lied, but I think that is TBD. Certainly would not be surprised. I don’t think he knows what he is Tweeting half the time. Either that or he specializes in intentionally ambiguous Tweets. I don’t really care much which it is.

I don’t really know how they will ever be able to remove the Beta label from v12, though I guess they can just make it mean whatever they want, so can justify removing the label for whatever reason. (Though some might think the removal of the label would mean something significant, I’m not convinced that it will have any significance in future. I am not even sure what it means now.)

Considering they haven’t removed the beta label from anything they’ve released as beta as far as I’m aware, I wouldn’t hold by breath

 

[rlsd]

Elon can blow his mind and can change his mind

 

[Matias]

It's clear now that a Tesla feature being beta does not mean it will ever leave beta.

Original AP1 is still in beta and will forever be.

 

[Daniel in SD]

it's only confusing if you pretend it doesn't mean what it literally says, and that Elons claim has already proven wrong as a result.

It's not like this is some weird aberration we simply MUST find excuses to pretend doesn't say what it clearly says... he's been super reliably wrong about almost every FSD related promise for years and years now. This is simply more of the same.

Someday Elon will clarify that supervised FSD is the beta version of unsupervised FSD and all confusion will be resolved.

 

[Knightshade]

Someday Elon will clarify that supervised FSD is the beta version of unsupervised FSD and all confusion will be resolved.

or, given there's been no supervised/unsupervised distinction at all related to any of the other many beta-even-though-it's-done-being-developed products from Tesla- none of that is true outside your imagination.

 

[aronth5]

Beta or not beta I've decided I no longer care. This thread just goes back and forth and accomplishes very little.

 

[Supcom]

Beta or not beta I've decided I no longer care. This thread just goes back and forth and accomplishes very little.

When we are between updates, we tend to alternate between discussing the 'beta' label and SAE level definitions with a few tutorials on how to apply torque to the steering wheel thrown in.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

When we are between updates, we tend to alternate between discussing the 'beta' label and SAE level definitions with a few tutorials on how to apply torque to the steering wheel thrown in.

Yes, proper satisfaction of the torque nag is important.

 

[sleepydoc]

In california they did.

Exactly

If Tesla is underwriting the coverage then it literally is not different.

LOL. You truly are delirious. underwriting insurance for drivers is very different from underwriting insurance for self-driving software.

Because legally the car is the driver at L3 or higher-that's the defining characteristic of L3 and higher-- that the vehicle, not the human, is performing the entire driving task.... so Tesla would not have a choice about it.

Prove it. You can't and that's the rub with Level 3 right now - the legal and regulatory framework is still being decided.

It factually is not.

It factually is.

But again, removing it or leaving it, either way, has no legal meaning of any kind

'Beta' may not have a legal definition, but it does have a definition which has legal implication. Your straw man argument that it has 'no legal definition' is simply a delusion. Go to an insurance executive and say you want them to insure a product that may endanger people's lives. Oh, and it's beta. Go to a courtroom and

literally....factually...

 

[spacecoin]

You can't and that's the rub with Level 3 right now - the legal and regulatory framework is still being decided.

You're completely right. Even in Germany where there is a legal framework for L3 (UNECE R157) the driver is liable.
A L3 should come with manufacturer guarantees that the L3 will not fail, but LEGALLY the person in the driver's seat is liable in all jurisdictions I know of.

 

[Daniel in SD]

You're completely right. Even in Germany where there is a legal framework for L3 (UNECE R157) the driver is liable.
A L3 should come with manufacturer guarantees that the L3 will not fail, but LEGALLY the person in the driver's seat is liable in all jurisdictions I know of.

Not in California. The manufacturer is required to have $5 million in insurance.

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