Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Path to FSD Beta wide release by end of year

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I am not saying this will happen - in fact if I were a betting man I'd say we don't see wide release by end of year (defined as anyone who has paid for FSD can enable the beta).

It also probably goes without saying, but any kind of robust Level 3 that doesn't require constant driver supervision is NOT going to happen this year. Therefore the question becomes: what milestone/design changes would be required to make FSD Beta as safe and easy to use as possible for the masses?

Here are my thoughts:
  • Single stack. Leaving aside the improvements that this might bring to highway driving, I think it's necessary just for a consistent user experience. The folks on this forum understand 'two stacks', but the average driver would be confused and frustrated by the inconsistent UX and feature sets.
  • More polished visualizations. FSD visualizations have come a long way, but they are still rough. Jiggling/morphing cars are still a problem. And the street markings (curb lines, painted street lines, etc.) are jumpy and garish. One particular glaring cosmetic issue is when you pull up in heavy traffic and the UI changes to the overhead view, with the curb markings jumping in and out of existence chaotically on the screen.
  • Keep the driver attention monitoring and 5 strikes. However replace the permanent eviction from the beta with some kind of timeout period (say a month or two).
  • Consider removing the steering wheel nags and rely entirely on driver attention monitoring. I think the nags actually distract the driver and result in unintended AP disengagements. I suspect the only reason they still have them is to keep the regulators off their back.
  • Big improvements to the (presumably still) hard-coded driving and routing logic. They should focus a couple of releases on fixing obvious path planning issues, such as late (or early) lane changes, lane changes back and forth for no apparent reason, turn signals clicking on and off repeatedly while waiting at traffic lights, etc.
  • Geofence out parking lots and limit FSD Beta to public roads. FSD Beta will 'try' to drive through parking lots, but it is often incredibly erratic. On more than one occasion I've had FSD Beta think the speed limit in a parking lot is 35mph. They should prevent FSD Beta in parking lots until they've put the time into training/coding for this specific problem space (and at the same time replace Smart Summon and add Parking Seek or whatever it's called).
  • PUBLIC EDUCATION ABOUT THE LIMITS OF FSD BETA. Elon has done Tesla no favors with his hyperbole about both current and future state of FSD. The average person you meet on the street is often surprised that Tesla drivers can't sleep in their cars today ('I thought they were already self-driving'?). This is particularly dangerous when one of these people buys or rents a Tesla and turns on FSD Beta.

That's my list so far. What else would you add? And do you think there's any way the above is possible by end of year? I think it is, because most the items on my list are about UI polish, limiting functionality (parking lots), and user awareness.
 
...Keep the driver attention monitoring and 5 strikes. However replace the permanent eviction from the beta with some kind of timeout period (say a month or two)....
The penalty should not be equivalent to the restricted FSD beta when it's a public release. It should be like the current public Autopilot/FSD: push parking gear to erase the penalty.

...Consider removing the steering wheel nags and rely entirely on driver attention monitoring. I think the nags actually distract the driver and result in unintended AP disengagements. I suspect the only reason they still have them is to keep the regulators off their back...
People were complaining about the nags in the public version. The FSD beta is even stricter!

The nags used to be less strict until there was the first documented Autopilot fatality.

It keeps getting stricter for safety, not because of the regulators.

That meant that people thought the radar version was bad enough, and they thought the newer FSD beta with pure vision would be safer; they were mistaken. The nags for FSD beta were even stricter for a reason. It's not because of the regulators that it can make more mistakes than the radar version.

...PUBLIC EDUCATION...
Tesla keeps giving out less and less information. There used to be emblems on your car's rear, so the public knows your battery capacity: 60, 100..., now none.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pilotSteve
I agree with most of your points above. I'm not sure about this one though:
It keeps getting stricter for safety, not because of the regulators.

As an FSD Beta user, do you feel like the steering wheel nags reduce risk of an accident? Given that you already have to keep your eyes fixed on the road ahead, and can't unbuckle the seatbelt?

They could also have an audible warning every 10 seconds 'Please pay attention'. But at a certain point you're just overwhelming the driver with stimulus and additional tasking. I think this is a situation where simpler is better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pilotSteve
I agree with most of your points above. I'm not sure about this one though:


As an FSD Beta user, do you feel like the steering wheel nags reduce risk of an accident? Given that you already have to keep your eyes fixed on the road ahead, and can't unbuckle the seatbelt?

They could also have an audible warning every 10 seconds 'Please pay attention'. But at a certain point you're just overwhelming the driver with stimulus and additional tasking. I think this is a situation where simpler is better.

Most other brands don't depend on the steering wheel's attention but only use a camera for driver engagement status.

The challenge with Tesla's Autosteer is: It can steer unexpectedly and wrongly in a fraction of a second. It can even disable Autosteer without advanced warning in a fraction of a second.

Tesla's eyes on the road are not enough, unlike most other brands. Tesla needs your hands on the wheel, not just your eyes on the road.

Tesla's stricter nagging system is not from regulators, it comes from Tesla's deficient design of Autosteer that needs to catch up with other brands.
 
So as an FSD Beta user (I presume you are one), you do think the steering wheel nags add to the safety of the system, above and beyond the safety provided by the driver attention monitoring? Honest question.

For me, the only times FSD Beta has 'caught' me not actually paying attention, it was the driver cam, not the steering wheel nags. You can quite easily be reading Twitter and tugging on the steering wheel every few seconds.
 
Tesla's stricter nagging system is not from regulators, it comes from Tesla's deficient design of Autosteer that needs to catch up with other brands.
Also this is a silly statement. The other brands don't 'steer unexpectedly' because none of them are attempting left/right turns or other complex maneuvers. They are just lane keeping systems. Apples and oranges lol
 
Also this is a silly statement. The other brands don't 'steer unexpectedly' because none of them are attempting left/right turns or other complex maneuvers. They are just lane keeping systems. Apples and oranges lol

That is very true for the Lane Keeping System without the ability to Auto Lane Change.

There are other more stable AutoSteer with Automatic Lane Changes like:

2020 and later Openpilot from Comma.ai ($1,199)


2021 and later GM Supercruise (prior years did not have Automatic Lane Changes)

Mercedes currently sells its EQS Drive Pilot for $7,726 with Automatic Lane Changes.

But you are correct that's Apples and oranges because they are not for city streets. However, the technology for a stable AutoSteer is there without the need for a Steering Wheel Torque Monitor, and Tesla just needs to catch up with other brands.
 
So as an FSD Beta user (I presume you are one), you do think the steering wheel nags add to the safety of the system, above and beyond the safety provided by the driver attention monitoring? Honest question.

For me, the only times FSD Beta has 'caught' me not actually paying attention, it was the driver cam, not the steering wheel nags. You can quite easily be reading Twitter and tugging on the steering wheel every few seconds.

I am not making excuses for Tesla. I am just pointing out the design rationale for the need for a constant torque monitor with Tesla's system. That is a deficiency that Tesla needs to improve upon. Someone needs to make Autosteer more reliable just like other brands before Tesla can drop the torque monitor requirement like other brands could.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2101Guy
  • Single stack. Leaving aside the improvements that this might bring to highway driving, I think it's necessary just for a consistent user experience. The folks on this forum understand 'two stacks', but the average driver would be confused and frustrated by the inconsistent UX and feature sets.
Isn't this essentially FSD Beta for everyone? I doubt they will run 2 separate NOAP stacks simultaneously.
 
Isn't this essentially FSD Beta for everyone? I doubt they will run 2 separate NOAP stacks simultaneously.

Yes, I've been thinking/hoping that V11's single stack will also imply that non-beta cars use the same FSD code for NoA and (E)AP, and therefore also Beta will no longer be on a separate, lagging set of releases. One can dream!