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Not in California. The manufacturer is required to have $5 million in insurance.
I found this in Motor Trend. I think this quote summarizes it nicely:
"In short, the present set of laws, rules, and regulations around autonomous vehicle operation are often murky and wildly inconsistent from state to state."
 
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I found this in Motor Trend. I think this quote summarizes it nicely:
"In short, the present set of laws, rules, and regulations around autonomous vehicle operation are often murky and wildly inconsistent from state to state."
I think the CA DMV is a better source of information regarding L3 vehicles in California which is the only state where customer owned L3 vehicles exist.
I predict laws in other states will become less murky when a manufacturer actually wants to sell there and they will all have the manufacturer be liable when the L3 system is engaged.
 
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Exactly...what?

In ONE state they did. In a dozen more they don't have to.

Thus debunking your claim there's any 'regulators' in the way of deploying this to any of those places.


LOL. You truly are delirious. underwriting insurance for drivers is very different from underwriting insurance for self-driving software.

How, specifically?


Prove it. You can't


Prove... what? That in an L3 car the CAR, not the human, is the driver?

That's literally the definition of autonomous driving (L3 through L5).

And in the states where it's already legal they generally incorporate the exact language (sometimes even directly referencing back to) the J3016 definitions and why they require the maker of the car or driving system to have insurance.

Why would they need insurance if they weren't the one responsible for the system driving?

So yes, I can prove it- and have done so even if you don't understand the answer.

Once again you ignorance of the topic and the law is showing.


and that's the rub with Level 3 right now - the legal and regulatory framework is still being decided.

Again- factually wrong.

it's ALREADY decided in quite a number of states.

I directly linked you to one of them in fact to debunk your false claim you need "certification" anywhere to do >L2.


It factually is.

Nope.

That's why no 'regulator' had to approve it in Nevada- because such regulation in a dozen US states only exists in your imagination.

There's factually NO regulatory obstacle, at all, in those places.



'Beta' may not have a legal definition, but it does have a definition which has legal implication.

Except... it doesn't.

Why do you keep making up nonsense you know you're unable to prove?

If you think otherwise, please cite the actual law-- or the case law-- showing these "legal implications"


Your straw man argument that it has 'no legal definition' is simply a delusion.

You strung together a lot of words you don't seem to understand there....

Which makes your meme like next level ironic I must say.


 
I think the CA DMV is a better source of information regarding L3 vehicles in California

Agreed.

which is the only state where customer owned L3 vehicles exist.

AFAIK L3 from Mercedes is legal in both CA and Nevada-- though given the brief time it's been for sale and that it's expensive I suppose it's possible nobody in Nevada owns one yet?


I predict laws in other states will become less murky when a manufacturer actually wants to sell there and they will all have the manufacturer be liable when the L3 system is engaged.

Well, it's not really murky in a bunch of states where you could sell such things today with nothing more than a statement of self certification and insurance... but noteworthy they ALL require the insurance. Almost like they understand who is responsible for the driving in a >L2 system or something.
 
Exactly...what?

In ONE state they did. In a dozen more they don't have to.

Thus debunking your claim there's any 'regulators' in the way of deploying this to any of those places.




How, specifically?





Prove... what? That in an L3 car the CAR, not the human, is the driver?

That's literally the definition of autonomous driving (L3 through L5).

And in the states where it's already legal they generally incorporate the exact language (sometimes even directly referencing back to) the J3016 definitions and why they require the maker of the car or driving system to have insurance.

Why would they need insurance if they weren't the one responsible for the system driving?

So yes, I can prove it- and have done so even if you don't understand the answer.

Once again you ignorance of the topic and the law is showing.




Again- factually wrong.

it's ALREADY decided in quite a number of states.

I directly linked you to one of them in fact to debunk your false claim you need "certification" anywhere to do >L2.




Nope.

That's why no 'regulator' had to approve it in Nevada- because such regulation in a dozen US states only exists in your imagination.

There's factually NO regulatory obstacle, at all, in those places.





Except... it doesn't.

Why do you keep making up nonsense you know you're unable to prove?

If you think otherwise, please cite the actual law-- or the case law-- showing these "legal implications"




You strung together a lot of words you don't seem to understand there....

Which makes your meme like next level ironic I must say.


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Not in California. The manufacturer is required to have $5 million in insurance.
Does that protect the person in the driver’s seat from a manslaughter charge?
 
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Does that protect the person in the driver’s seat from a manslaughter charge?


Now you're conflating civil and criminal liability.

BUT- with the understanding I'm not licensed to practice criminal law in California, I can say almost certainly you would not be charged with any form of manslaughter?


To be guilty of vehicular manslaugher under CPC §192(c)(1), you must:

Drive a vehicle or operate a vessel; AND,
Commit a misdemeanor or infraction; OR,
Commit a lawful act that might cause death; AND,
Act with gross negligence; AND,
Cause the death of another person.

Using an L3 system isn't a misdemeanor or infraction- and using an OEM system in exactly the way it's intended to be used and legal to use on the roads would not rise to the level of gross negligence. Plus- legally, YOU are not driving/operating the vehicle while the L3 system is enagaged so the charge would fail right out of the gate.



Likewise involuntary manslaughter (CPC 192(b)) requires you must:

Commit a crime; OR,
Commit a lawful act in an unlawful way; AND,
Be criminally negligent; AND,
Cause another person's death.

Using an L3 system isn't a crime, and wouldn't rise to the level of criminal negligence if using the system as intended/directed.
 
This could end up with the negative (?) consequence of there being no more Tweets, period.

Something will have to give. I don’t know how the collateral worked for his various loans. I thought Tesla shares were involved somehow.

? - Negative for this thread for sure.
 
He already threatened to quiet quit Tesla before this ruling. Probably not good for FSD. I don’t think he’ll ever quit Twitter though, it’s literally humanity’s only hope.

Oy! What a f'n crazy couple of years it's been. It's hard to imagine things getting any crazier out there.

From what I gathered the Judge said Elon controlled the TLSA board (duh!) and he got whatever he wanted without the shareholders knowing details. Where it goes from here is a good question. There were enough questions about the dubious TSLA board even before all of this so hopefully that's corrected. Both his 2018 and new compensation packages should be more down to earth and transparent. Some wonder if Elon will get a margin call on his stock options and put a monkeywrench on the TWTR purchase and further lower TSLA's stock price.