Dark morning in America - talk of Model S seems - frivolous

[ohmman]

I think Spicer may have truly believed the BS being fed to him and then was embarrassed when he saw the pictures, and other information, and that's why he came out much more conciliatory on his next briefing.

I completely appreciate the potential, but I find it terribly unlikely. I subscribe more to the Ari Fleischer tweet that says it's something that the President tells you to do, and is watching. The great NPR program "On the Media" had a recent episode that dissected this to some degree and suggested that it was a subtle note to the administration about parroting. It's worth a listen.

 

[Canuck]

I completely appreciate the potential, but I find it terribly unlikely. I subscribe more to the Ari Fleischer tweet that says it's something that the President tells you to do, and is watching. The great NPR program "On the Media" had a recent episode that dissected this to some degree and suggested that it was a subtle note to the administration about parroting. It's worth a listen.

I don't take issue with anything you say here. I took issue with this:

And it's a verifiable lie.

That's very different from "terribly unlikely".

I understand "the President was watching" argument but he seemed to read the BS too passionately when, if he really knew it was BS, I would have thought he would have read with less of what appeared to me be real emotion and outrage. Perhaps he's an academy award winning actor. Who knows? I just don't thinks it can be said to be "verified" one way or the other that Spicer lied, that's all. It's false information, of course.

 

[X Fan]

Also, just want to point out that the minute you start to trust the information coming from your government more than from the free press, you're instantly subscribing to propaganda. That's fine for some people, but I like living in our democracy with the first Amendment.

Great point but alas in my lifetime, press has morphed into advocacy vs reporting.

Propaganda emanates from all powerful constituencies today.......

 

[kort677]

Also, just want to point out that the minute you start to trust the information coming from your government more than from the free press, you're instantly subscribing to propaganda. That's fine for some people, but I like living in our democracy with the first Amendment.

it is a shame how the media has lost any shred of credibility. I do not trust the media at all.

 

[Canuck]

it is a shame how the media has lost any shred of credibility. I do not trust the media at all.

So if they report a plane crash you're suspect?

 

[stopcrazypp]

I don't take issue with anything you say here. I took issue with this:



That's very different from "terribly unlikely".

I understand "the President was watching" argument but he seemed to read the BS too passionately when, if he really knew it was BS, I would have thought he would have read with less of what appeared to me be real emotion and outrage. Perhaps he's an academy award winning actor. Who knows? I just don't thinks it can be said to be "verified" one way or the other that Spicer lied, that's all. It's false information, of course.

I don't think it whether he lied or not is that important to the original point. Him having a record of giving false information is already enough to make the original point.

 

[ohmman]

I don't take issue with anything you say here. I took issue with this:

Verifiable lie was the wrong term, and I apologize. Verifiably false is I think more appropriate. Thanks for keeping me honest.

 

[livingthedream]

Also, just want to point out that the minute you start to trust the information coming from your government more than from the free press...

The institutions he cited are anything but "free press" if that is to infer unbiased reporting.

 

[Skipdd]

it is a shame how the media has lost any shred of credibility. I do not trust the media at all.

Well I trust them more than what Trump says. It's been proven multiple times that he denies facts, changes the past story to match his present viewpoint and more. And the thing that scares me the most is that he wants his view to be the only one that everyone hears/believes. How is that different than what totalitarian governments do, e.g, China and Russia? Thanks but I want multiple sources of information, not just what the government wants to tell me.

To be clear, I am not saying I disagree with everything he is doing.

 

[ohmman]

The institutions he cited are anything but "free press" if that is to infer unbiased reporting.

You should brush up on what free press means.

 

[Canuck]

Verifiable lie was the wrong term, and I apologize. Verifiably false is I think more appropriate. Thanks for keeping me honest.

You're such an upstanding guy and the last person anyone needs to keep honest. I can tell by your posts that honesty is built into your DNA to the greatest extent it can be for any human (or neanderthal judging by your avatar).

Really, it's me trying to fool myself that Spicer didn't outright lie so I jumped on the word "verifiable" as if it really matters. Bill Maher made a good point on his last show that our only real hope that Trump can be kept in check is moderate Republicans (is that really any hope?). And Sam Harris said in his recent blog "The fact that atheists like me can’t find the time to worry about the religious crackpots he has brought with him into power is a measure of how bad the man is." So now here I am grasping at straws hoping that the White House Press Secretary didn't really come out and outright lie to the American people since it's not "verifiable".

As if that really matters.

(But apology accepted... )

 

[livingthedream]

You should brush up on what free press means.

It's not so much what I think it means but rather what was inferred by the context. Perhaps there was no intent to mean unbiased or fair or any other adjective that would imply a more trustworthy report than from the government directly, in which case I sincerely apologize and will bow out of this pointless thread now.

 

[ggr]

It's easy to just blanket cover "constitution" - which part of it? Your statement also allude that the the Tramp's order was unconstitutional - again, which part of constitution?

First amendment, unequal treatment of religions.
Fifth amendment, detaining persons without cause.
Sixth amendment, lack of due process (access to attorneys)

edit: I came up with that list before reading further forward in the thread. It's pretty obvious.

 

[ggr]

People with Green cards with Canadian passports can get in no problem.
Folks who have dual Canadian citizenship with any of the banned countries can also get in.

The first statement seems to be true, but so what? Canadans were never excluded.
For the second, that is not what I've heard about other such situations. For example there's the Australian teenager who was headed to Space Camp, but has dual citizenship... http://gizmodo.com/australian-teen-denied-visa-for-space-camp-in-us-becaus-1791770012 . Oz and Canadia are usually treated similarly by the US. Five Eyes, and all that.

 

[mmd]

Some political observers have speculated, that a more sinister thing happening behind the news covered by press, is a consolidation of power in the hands of a few. Bannon is one of them. Apparently, many dissenting voices within DOJ were already gutted while the media was only reporting the AG's firing.
Questions multiply over Bannon’s role in Trump administration

Trump is a character (some say, a malignant narcissist one) that has thrived by exploiting the loopholes of laws in a lawful country like U.S. He siphoned off money from his companies while they went bankrupt. Now he is up to screwing up the entire nation. Once he installs his puppets in the Supreme Court and other branches of the government that act as 'checks and balances" in the U.S. govt, we will have a phony democracy as in Russia. The manner in which he is threatening the CEOs and everyone else openly is quite worrisome. This is not the rule of law, but rule of power.

I'm afraid, very very afraid. The incidents of the last 2 weeks casts dark shadows on the future. Once someone crosses the line, no one knows where he will stop. Call your reps and urge them to initiate the impeachment motion. if this guy stays longer, it may be too late.
Sign the impeachment petition on change.org and below.
Why Impeachment? -
Newa about the above site:
Will Donald Trump Be Impeached? Campaign Calling For Holding President Accountable For Constitutional Violations Gets Over Half Million Signatures

 

[McRat]

The first statement seems to be true, but so what? Canadans were never excluded.
For the second, that is not what I've heard about other such situations. For example there's the Australian teenager who was headed to Space Camp, but has dual citizenship... http://gizmodo.com/australian-teen-denied-visa-for-space-camp-in-us-becaus-1791770012 . Oz and Canadia are usually treated similarly by the US. Five Eyes, and all that.

Now the POTUS is quitting all our mutual defense agreements.

Unbelievable. Literally.

 

[kort677]

First amendment, unequal treatment of religions.
Fifth amendment, detaining persons without cause.
Sixth amendment, lack of due process (access to attorneys)

edit: I came up with that list before reading further forward in the thread. It's pretty obvious.

do you realize that non citizens attempting to enter the US are not protected by the constitution?

 

[msnow]

do you realize that non citizens attempting to enter the US are not protected by the constitution?

If they are already residents and have green cards, as these people did, they are protected. Thus the constitutional issue and the stay by the Federal judges.

 

[Vitold]

Now that the ban has been temporarily lifted we have increased chance of terrorist activity which will trigger "we told you so" from the administration.

 

[OBX John]

Now that the ban has been temporarily lifted we have increased chance of terrorist activity which will trigger "we told you so" from the administration.

I'm curious - which country covered under the ban had previously produced a terrorist attack on the US?