Any danger reported from indoor charging anywhere?

[gvillager]

You might also want to point out that in many jurisdictions in California, the building codes are being changed to require wiring for charging including retro-fitting garages in condos. It's only a matter of time.

NYC is on board with this too.

NYC Law To Make 20 Percent Of New Parking Spaces Electric-Car Ready

The law, as codified in Intro. 1176, will require new off-street parking facilities--such as garages and surface lots--to build in sufficient electrical capacity to accommodate charging stations for 20 percent of their spaces. The mandate also applies to existing structures enlarged to the point that they require increased electrical service.

The condo board is just being ridiculous. I'd sell the condo before I'd sell the car.

 

[NoMoGas]

My condo board at the Jersey shore has decreed I have to stop charging at a parking spot in the underground garage of our high-rise building. We've been charging there since late August, and suddenly they say there is a big problem. They cite "danger" and "liability" in their decision, but refuse to show me any evidence of any kind. Although a lack of incidents does not prove safety, I am very curious. If I cannot persuade them, I will have to sell the car. Area charging stations are miles and miles from home and work, so leaving the car to charge, then picking it up makes the ruling unworkable.

Check with your State Legislator and City Councilman. You may find out that they are REQUIRED to allow you to do it. Honestly I'd sue them just to make a point. What you're probably running into is political opposition.

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You have the best laws in CA!!

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Anybody charging anything, 110 or 240, would not be acceptable to them. (The president, when pressed, also said that some board members were upset that they had to stop at a gas station and we could just pull into the garage and attach the car to the outlet.)

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I certainly thought I had permission, but since it was an informal conversation with the board president, I have no record. Later, when I asked about what the delay was in replacing the 110 v. outlet in the garage with a 240 (a big part of the request, since the former is so very slow), one of the maintenance people said he thought there had been a problem with fumes created when charging LiIon batteries. I sent everyone involved information from www.batteryuniversity.com on the new ones, but never got any feedback about that particular concern. So I don't know if it's fire or fumes--or just something new--that's their problem. The board president refused to disclose the reasons, just cited "danger" and "liability" over and over.

I agree that buildings would not be making investments in charging stations in underground garages if they thought it was unsafe. But…there is a good chance it's just fear of new and a bit of jealousy. The president commented, during a heated exchange, that some on the board were upset that we could just drive into our parking space and they had to stop at the gas station… Hay! Carumba!!

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I pointed out to them that with just under 300 units, there are 800-1000 240v outlets in the building, one for each washer/dryer, dishwasher, stove, refrigerator and microwave! Nothing seems to budge them. Of course everyone is used to these items and electric cars not-so-much.

Complete unadulterated bullsh*%. THOUSANDS of electric vehicles are charged INDOORS every day. The charger is an appliance like anything else. They COULD say they don't want to pay for your power, but they may HAVE to let you install a charging station at your cost.

Like I said, all else fails sue for the right to do it. W#ith their nonsensical arguments (get them recorded) you may do us proud

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Honestly!

Retain an attorney and you'll get what you want. Just because your condo board denies your request doesn't mean that it can't be challenged. Your request is reasonable, their denial is not. Have an attorney engage them and claim that their denial of your request was malicious and based upon personal prejudice. Make it clear that either they can allow you to install the outlet at your expense or they can incur the additional costs of having a court decide in your favor. Their personal opinions have no place here. If they are making generic claims using terms such as "liability", make them justify their statements with actual information. Have everyone you can find in the building sign a petition in your favor. Go to a condo board meeting to deliver your petition and ask them, openly and publicly, about your case and make them justify their denial in front of a room of other condo owners.

You should also run for the condo board and amend the CC&Rs to allow such things for future EV owners in your building.

Everything he said!

 

[ABVA]

Honestly!

Retain an attorney and you'll get what you want. Just because your condo board denies your request doesn't mean that it can't be challenged. Your request is reasonable, their denial is not. Have an attorney engage them and claim that their denial of your request was malicious and based upon personal prejudice. Make it clear that either they can allow you to install the outlet at your expense or they can incur the additional costs of having a court decide in your favor. Their personal opinions have no place here. If they are making generic claims using terms such as "liability", make them justify their statements with actual information. Have everyone you can find in the building sign a petition in your favor. Go to a condo board meeting to deliver your petition and ask them, openly and publicly, about your case and make them justify their denial in front of a room of other condo owners.

You should also run for the condo board and amend the CC&Rs to allow such things for future EV owners in your building.

Very well said, I second that. My MS is garage kept and garage charged, both at home and at work. Also please take a look at pictures in this link where a load full are charging indoors.

Post A Picture Of Your Car Charging - Page 4

May be this will help educate your ignorant board. Take a stand against injustice and make all of us proud.

 

[yobigd20]

The other thing to consider is that the charger itself is inside the car. It's not like the wall socket is the charger. It's no different than plugging your iPhone in (well, except that it uses more amps, but that is it).

 

[Amaieseing]

I'd love to take them all for a ride, but all but 2 are in Florida for the winter. (Did I mention they are 80 and over?…)

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@AmpedRealtor and others suggesting/seconding a lawsuit: I have contacted an attorney to see if it is feasible--possibly just the threat of one will do the trick. I asked the president, over and over again, to tell me why they thought there was a danger (and thus a liability) issue. He pointedly refused, "I'm not going to go into that!"

I would definitely run for the condo board, but our elections are in August (when all the summer people--most of the building--are around), and they have directed the vallets not to to plug it into the 120v. outlet (for which we merely want an upgrade) after March 31st. [Because it's a fairly crowded under-the-building parking garage, they are the only ones who can park cars (for residents) in it.]

 

[jthompson]

As a President of a Home Owners Association in Virginia, I would offer you this advice: 1) Don't go the lawsuit route or adversarial route. Your condo Board is comprised of people (most if not all of whom are volunteers) who have their own views and opinions, but are guided (and restricted) by the laws of NJ (http://www.state.nj.us/dca/divisions/codes/forms/pdf_ari/assoc_pkt.pdf) and of your city and/or county regarding what Associations can and cannot do. make sure you are aware of all your Association's By Laws and of NJs 2) Request a meeting with the Board to discuss the issue, and provide them in that meeting the information they need to understand everything associated with charging a Tesla. If you can have the Board meeting at your car, that would be even better! 3) Enlist the advice and support of Tesla in presenting your case and providing you facts on the safety of electric car charging.

Yes, Associations can be a pain, but in the end they are run by people who have to follow the By Laws and state regulations, and they cannot make up rules or decisions without basing them on the facts - the law is on your side, and NJ provides you ways for you to address any unfavorable Board actions.

 

[PhilBa]

I agree with AmpedRealtor, get a lawyer. Have them write a letter threatening a lawsuit if they unreasonably withhold permission or other wise move to prevent you from charging your car with a legally installed and permitted EVSE. Let the lawyer play the heavy and then go to them to resolve the situation amicably. They will not want a law suit and are likely to back down. It's unfortunate you have to go to this length but sometimes a bully needs to get whacked.

 

[evme]

You have the best laws in CA!!

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Anybody charging anything, 110 or 240, would not be acceptable to them. (The president, when pressed, also said that some board members were upset that they had to stop at a gas station and we could just pull into the garage and attach the car to the outlet.)

- - - Updated - - -

I certainly thought I had permission, but since it was an informal conversation with the board president, I have no record. Later, when I asked about what the delay was in replacing the 110 v. outlet in the garage with a 240 (a big part of the request, since the former is so very slow), one of the maintenance people said he thought there had been a problem with fumes created when charging LiIon batteries. I sent everyone involved information from Basic to Advanced Battery Information from Battery University on the new ones, but never got any feedback about that particular concern. So I don't know if it's fire or fumes--or just something new--that's their problem. The board president refused to disclose the reasons, just cited "danger" and "liability" over and over.

I agree that buildings would not be making investments in charging stations in underground garages if they thought it was unsafe. But…there is a good chance it's just fear of new and a bit of jealousy. The president commented, during a heated exchange, that some on the board were upset that we could just drive into our parking space and they had to stop at the gas station… Hay! Carumba!!

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I pointed out to them that with just under 300 units, there are 800-1000 240v outlets in the building, one for each washer/dryer, dishwasher, stove, refrigerator and microwave! Nothing seems to budge them. Of course everyone is used to these items and electric cars not-so-much.

Since all your equipment is certified, they are going to have to prove that their wiring is faulty to make a case of safety issues. And I don't think they want to do that.


I would at least get from them a statement on what exactly they think is the safety concern.

I am guessing you do not have any witnesses who heard you talk with the president and him agreeing?

 

[Chris]

Just another reason not to live in a 'neighborhood association' estate. Coming from Europe I was surprised how much power those associations have and how they infringe on personal freedom. Increase in value is often stated as a reason but I run from those properties...

 

[jerry33]

Just another reason not to live in a 'neighborhood association' estate. Coming from Europe I was surprised how much power those associations have and how they infringe on personal freedom. Increase in value is often stated as a reason but I run from those properties...

Me too. There is zero reason for them to exist. The city already has plenty of regulations.

 

[ABVA]

Here is a link specific to New Jersey:
http://www.nj.gov/dep/sage/docs/ev-charging-stations.pdf

This is off New Jersey Government Web site and specifically states that State Regulators consider installation of residential charging equipment to be "Minor Work". So the question becomes if state regulators consider installation of charging facility to be "Minor Work" i.e. very low to no risk, I don't know where your idiotic board came out with terms like "danger" and "liability". If they want to eliminate all risk associated with electric power, may be you should recommend to cut off all electricity to the complex (sarcasm). This will eliminate all liability and danger issues, all of you might freeze or be extremely uncomfortable with a heat stroke, but danger and liability issues with your Model S are eliminated.
You can tell I am PO*ed. I will do some more research and post it on the forum, but these OBSTRUCTIONISTS need to learn the facts.

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Please take a look at this as well.
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/division...guide_electric_vehicles_charging_stations.pdf
Although home charging of electric vehicles will likely necessitate the installation of an EV charging station, it should not be a deterrent to considering these cars.

So, in essence NJ is encouraging EV (way to go Gov. Christie). Even though document lacks specificity, my take on this is that state of NJ is saying “Installing a Charging Station in your home is not just environmental honesty but also cost effective”, once again, your board needs to get their heads out of wherever and breathe some fresh air.

 

[Amaieseing]

Here is a link specific to New Jersey:
http://www.nj.gov/dep/sage/docs/ev-charging-stations.pdf

This is off New Jersey Government Web site and specifically states that State Regulators consider installation of residential charging equipment to be "Minor Work". So the question becomes if state regulators consider installation of charging facility to be "Minor Work" i.e. very low to no risk, I don't know where your idiotic board came out with terms like "danger" and "liability". If they want to eliminate all risk associated with electric power, may be you should recommend to cut off all electricity to the complex (sarcasm). This will eliminate all liability and danger issues, all of you might freeze or be extremely uncomfortable with a heat stroke, but danger and liability issues with your Model S are eliminated.
You can tell I am PO*ed. I will do some more research and post it on the forum, but these OBSTRUCTIONISTS need to learn the facts.

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Please take a look at this as well.
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/division...guide_electric_vehicles_charging_stations.pdf
Although home charging of electric vehicles will likely necessitate the installation of an EV charging station, it should not be a deterrent to considering these cars.

So, in essence NJ is encouraging EV (way to go Gov. Christie). Even though document lacks specificity, my take on this is that state of NJ is saying “Installing a Charging Station in your home is not just environmental honesty but also cost effective”, once again, your board needs to get their heads out of wherever and breathe some fresh air.

Thanks, ABVA!! These are great resources. All of them refer to "homes" though, and as previous contributors have noted, condo associations have a lot of power over residents. In my situation, it makes a lot of sense, since the building is 20 stories high, with over 300 "units" or apartments, and an underground garage like a hotel, situated in a crowded shore area. The rules are usually very understandable and more than offset by the security and services offered, and the direct access to the beach and a view of the ocean year round that we have. I intend to fight this particular rule--know it would affect every other EV owner down the line as well as me.

 

[Amaieseing]

Gizmotoy: "I'd be happy to provide a reference for you. My apartment building is 4 stories, built directly on top of an underground garage. In that garage we have three ChargePoint 208V/32A J1772 charging stations, shared by a Volt, a Fiat 500e, two Leafs, a Focus EV, a plug in Prius, and three Tesla Model S. In addition, the complex will install a 5-15 port at your spot if you pay installation (~$500) and has plans to add two more J1772s next year. I don't think they'd be making such an investment if they considered it dangerous."

This was a very generous offer. And I'd love to have your recommendations to present (along with other evidence/testimonials) for a meeting of unit owners the board is having in the next month. They want to feel the waters before they make a final decision.
Their latest proposal is NO CHARGING in the underground garage, but they will pay for installation of a commercial charger in the outdoor parking lot, so anyone who lives here could charge there. But there would still be restrictions during the summer when every spot there is taken. Installing underground would solve all the problems doing it outdoors would create, but they remain adamant about that being too dangerous, without citing what danger they are referring to, or what evidence they have.

 

[Volker.Berlin]

Huh?!

 

[apvbguy]

My condo board at the Jersey shore has decreed I have to stop charging at a parking spot in the underground garage of our high-rise building. We've been charging there since late August, and suddenly they say there is a big problem. They cite "danger" and "liability" in their decision, but refuse to show me any evidence of any kind. Although a lack of incidents does not prove safety, I am very curious. If I cannot persuade them, I will have to sell the car. Area charging stations are miles and miles from home and work, so leaving the car to charge, then picking it up makes the ruling unworkable.

as long as the "plug" you are charging off of was properly installed there should be no more danger than in the building's laundry room

 

[Chris Naps]

My condo board at the Jersey shore has decreed I have to stop charging

Dear Amaieseing,

I am also a Jersey Shore resident and you are looking at this ALL to wrongly...

My advice is to have your children or wife (if you have either) email a construction company. In the email you have them write, "Time for some traffic problems." to the construction crew. You then have the crew barricade the entrance of the garage, until you get what you want. Then email the condo board of trustees and threaten them (off the record, of course..) with the closure. They will soon give up and allow you to charge freely.

Is it legal? I would research the legal brief and legality of it, but unfortunately I do not have the time at this exact moment. If you simply look up the Fort Lee traffic jam, then you will have conclusive evidence that it is a New Jersey state law that you are allowed to do this. It was enacted by Governor Chris Christie.

I hope this helps.

Good Luck man!

 

[NigelM]

Installing underground would solve all the problems doing it outdoors would create, but they remain adamant about that being too dangerous, without citing what danger they are referring to, or what evidence they have.

1. point out tat it's no more dangerous than a dryer. Anyone got a washing machine/dryer in their condo? (Actually, it's less dangerous than a dryer as there's no lint trap to catch fire.)

2. The vast majority of us charge in our own garages, connected to our houses. Guess that we all would have heard if there was something dangerous in doing that?

 

[Seven7]

My condo board at the Jersey shore has decreed I have to stop charging at a parking spot in the underground garage of our high-rise building. We've been charging there since late August, and suddenly they say there is a big problem. They cite "danger" and "liability" in their decision, but refuse to show me any evidence of any kind. Although a lack of incidents does not prove safety, I am very curious. If I cannot persuade them, I will have to sell the car. Area charging stations are miles and miles from home and work, so leaving the car to charge, then picking it up makes the ruling unworkable.

Well that sucks, I'm not familiar with real estate laws in NJ, but here's how I would attack this. When you bought your condo did you receive any condo docs or deed restrictions? If so do they specifically forbid charging an EV in the building's garage? If not (and they probably don't) I would point that out to your association - if they don't give in don't be afraid to get a legal opinion and then have an attorney send them a letter and see what happens from that time on.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Huh?!

New paradigm.