19" and 21" Tire Wear (informal) Survey

[FlasherZ]

I have faith they will do the right thing, especially since there is set precedent. The center was at 7/32" (from memory, may have been 8). The fronts are wearing normally.

If the measurement is tread depth on the contact patch, Tesla will not replace them at their cost -- that is standard wear and tear on those soft tires.

Where Tesla is covering the cost of replacement is where inside shoulder wear has exposed cords due to excessive camber. When my car had > 2.6 degrees of negative camber, I had tires with about 5,000 miles that were down to the exposed cords on the inside of the shoulder but the contact surface patch wasn't even coming close to the wear bars. That's the type of wear that can be blamed on the car's setup. For me, those days are now over (yay)!

 

[yobigd20]

If the measurement is tread depth on the contact patch, Tesla will not replace them at their cost -- that is standard wear and tear on those soft tires.

Where Tesla is covering the cost of replacement is where inside shoulder wear has exposed cords due to excessive camber. When my car had > 2.6 degrees of negative camber, I had tires with about 5,000 miles that were down to the exposed cords on the inside of the shoulder but the contact surface patch wasn't even coming close to the wear bars. That's the type of wear that can be blamed on the car's setup. For me, those days are now over (yay)!

yea but what if you both both... at what measurement value do they say "nope" vs "ok" aka cords showing and 7/32" on center, cords and 9/32" on center, cords and 5/32" on center.

 

[N4HHE]

Michelin Primacy 19" 5300 miles. This is off the right rear but all 4 tires looked equally perfect this afternoon when I rotated.

 

[Pollux]

Great thread.

Current data:
P85+
21" Michelin P/S 2s, staggered
Delivered: August 7, 2013
Date tread measured: June 20, 2014
Current mileage: 15,972
Front tread: 7/32
Rear tread: 6/32
Both Tesla Watertown, MA Service Center & Wheel Dynamix (tire/wheel specialist) assure me tires are wearing well.
Wheel DynamiX believes I will be able to finish out this season on these tires (until I swap for winter tires in November, 2014)
So: August - November, 2013 plus April - November, 2014

Alan

 

[mnx]

That's pretty amazing. One of my 19" goodyears is now down to 3/32 in the middle of the tread. I just moved it to the front and lowered the tire pressure from 50psi back down to to 45. (It was 4-5/32 on the inside and outside grooves) Hopefully these will last until the fall/winter. These tires are just shy of 20,000km now.

Great thread.

Current data:
P85+
21" Michelin P/S 2s, staggered
Delivered: August 7, 2013
Date tread measured: June 20, 2014
Current mileage: 15,972
Front tread: 7/32
Rear tread: 6/32
Both Tesla Watertown, MA Service Center & Wheel Dynamix (tire/wheel specialist) assure me tires are wearing well.
Wheel DynamiX believes I will be able to finish out this season on these tires (until I swap for winter tires in November, 2014)
So: August - November, 2013 plus April - November, 2014

Alan

 

[zwede]

Great thread.

Current data:
P85+
21" Michelin P/S 2s, staggered
Delivered: August 7, 2013
Date tread measured: June 20, 2014
Current mileage: 15,972
Front tread: 7/32
Rear tread: 6/32
Both Tesla Watertown, MA Service Center & Wheel Dynamix (tire/wheel specialist) assure me tires are wearing well.
Wheel DynamiX believes I will be able to finish out this season on these tires (until I swap for winter tires in November, 2014)
So: August - November, 2013 plus April - November, 2014

Alan

How many miles do you have on the PS2s? I guess you ran the winter tires for some of those 15K miles?

 

[Pollux]

Excellent point. I just went back to my paperwork from the tire changes (11/21/2013, 4/16/2014) and discovered that I didn't have valid mileage data for either change over. So that leaves me estimating 5 months of winter tire usage at 5 X 1600 = 8000 miles for that interval, based on an average of 1600 miles per month given 10 months of ownership and 16,000 miles overall. That sounds high to me, because I'm comfortable asserting that I drive fewer miles in the winter than the summer. Which brings me to a somewhat arbitrary estimate of 6000 miles for the 5 winter months, i.e., 75% of the baseline average otherwise demonstrated over 10 months. Implying 10000 miles on the summer tires so far.

There's lots to criticize in this estimate. Let's say we're looking at anywhere from 8000-10000 miles on my summer tires at this point, definitely not the 16K miles I've accumulated in total. (It's fairer to round the number to 16K than 15K, given I was at 15,972.)

How many miles do you have on the PS2s? I guess you ran the winter tires for some of those 15K miles?

 

[Owner]

New update for me after having terrible alignment issues earlier. Two tires burned through a little faster than expected with sidewall wear again but not nearly as bad as the first time. Tesla's response was to put in new camber arms, which have been redesigned. More info on my post:

New Camber Arms | Tesla Owner

 

[zwede]

Owner: I think you are drawing the wrong conclusion in your blog post. Alignment doesn't change that drastically in 30 miles unless you participated in a demolition derby!

The Hunter machines are very accurate if they are calibrated correctly. One of the machines, either at the SC or the tire shop, was out of calibration.

I had my car aligned at my SC. I drove it home and checked the alignment myself. Only measurement that was close to the printout from the SC was rear camber. Rear toe said 0.15 toe-in on the printout but was really 0.80 toe-out.

I have since aligned the car myself and checked it a couple of times over 1500 miles. The alignment has not changed.

 

[Owner]

I'm going with "the benefit of the doubt".... The 30 miles was me driving home to unlock the garage and then Tesla driving the car back to the shop. No demolition derby.

I am sure both sets of Hunter machines are calibrated well. I trust this Tesla service center and my local garage and I know a thing or two about laser interferometers.... And both places are using the same machine / same mechanic etc... to check alignment. So even if one or the other was slightly uncalibrated, the 30 mile measurement should be consistent with itself as it was the same machine.

What I do not know well is the realistic amount cars can change from measurement to measurement... I am going back to both my local mechanic and Tesla to check more when I get some more miles on the car.

Owner: I think you are drawing the wrong conclusion in your blog post. Alignment doesn't change that drastically in 30 miles unless you participated in a demolition derby!

The Hunter machines are very accurate if they are calibrated correctly. One of the machines, either at the SC or the tire shop, was out of calibration.

I had my car aligned at my SC. I drove it home and checked the alignment myself. Only measurement that was close to the printout from the SC was rear camber. Rear toe said 0.15 toe-in on the printout but was really 0.80 toe-out.

I have since aligned the car myself and checked it a couple of times over 1500 miles. The alignment has not changed.

 

[lolachampcar]

and before people get excited, I suspect the "new camber arms" have the new style bushing in them that was originally shipped in the P+ package and now is shipped in every car. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe Tesla has come out with longer upper links to reduce camber.

 

[Owner]

Hi lolachampcar,

Yes, you are correct. The specs on my "new camber arms" are not any different than before. Tesla said they are a new and improved version and mine were from the earlier Vins.
But at least I can be within the Tesla camber spec.

My local mechanic did look at these camber arms and said they look different in shape than the earlier ones I had on.

and before people get excited, I suspect the "new camber arms" have the new style bushing in them that was originally shipped in the P+ package and now is shipped in every car. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe Tesla has come out with longer upper links to reduce camber.

 

[redi]

Decided to crawl under and check today - P85+ 8600 miles, PS2 worn through to the cord.

I drive like a geezer. The car spends 99% of its time at standard height. Alighment set/checked by the Dallas Service Center at 900 miles and 5000 miles.

This is just nuts.

LR today -

Alignment 10/13 "everything ok"

Alighment 2/14 5k miles "everything ok.

Checked again when in for service 4/14 @ 6400 miles - "5/32 rear"

This is just crazy wear on a very expensive tire.

 

[Owner]

Your looks similar to mine as it just "goes out of alignment". I'd contact Tesla and complain in this case. you probably need the new camber arms, not just the bolts.

Decided to crawl under and check today - P85+ 8600 miles, PS2 worn through to the cord.

I drive like a geezer. The car spends 99% of its time at standard height. Alighment set/checked by the Dallas Service Center at 900 miles and 5000 miles.

This is just crazy wear on a very expensive tire.

 

[zwede]

Redi: I have an almost identical alignment printout from the same SC. When I got home I checked it myself and found the rear at 0.80 toe-out. I don't want to speculate, cast blame or anything. Just posting what I found. After I corrected the rear toe my wh/mile dropped 15% and my tires show no cords @8300 miles. P85+ like yours.

 

[redi]

Redi: I have an almost identical alignment printout from the same SC. When I got home I checked it myself and found the rear at 0.80 toe-out. I don't want to speculate, cast blame or anything. Just posting what I found. After I corrected the rear toe my wh/mile dropped 15% and my tires show no cords @8300 miles. P85+ like yours.

I hope you reported this to Tesla. There seems to be a sc problem to fix.

 

[lolachampcar]

The alignment figures you display DO NOT equal the inside shoulder on your tires. I'm with Zwede on this one; go to an independent tire shop and have them give you their print out for the alignment as the car is now (before it goes back to the SC). It looks a whole lot like toe out to me.



If people have a concern over the accuracy of the SC's alignment specs and these concerns are costing $1000 per 8500 miles, I would recommend the following-
Toe-In Gauge

For less than $150 delivered to your door, you and a bud can check toe with a standard ruler in less than three minutes! There is no guessing, speculation or arguing.
This will not tell you thrust angle but then that is not as critical as total toe.

 

[zwede]

I hope you reported this to Tesla. There seems to be a sc problem to fix.

I know Tesla monitors this forum closely. I few months ago I mentioned an issue unrelated to this on the forum and got a call from SC 2 days later to schedule a visit. The other fixes the SC has done on my car have all been great.

 

[Dave EV]

If people have a concern over the accuracy of the SC's alignment specs and these concerns are costing $1000 per 8500 miles, I would recommend the following-
Toe-In Gauge

The deluxe toe-in plates seem easier to use - and then you don't have to worry about scribing a line in your tire or wondering if the ribs are lined up accurately, either.

Would love to hear the pros/cons of each.

 

[redi]

I'm with Zwede on this one; go to an independent tire shop and have them give you their print out for the alignment as the car is now (before it goes back to the SC).

I will do this. Thanks for the suggestion.