lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
That kind of response to a Zero makes you really wonder what would have happened if Mission or someone like them had pulled off a production bike. The business model is not there just yet but it is close.
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Zero Motorcycles
- Thread starter rugbymonk
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- Electric Vehicles
mkspeedr
Member
Congrats! What is your range? I have 600 miles on my SR/F and get 80 when I ride too fast. 110 if drive normal.
Frisco-Dad
Member
Bringing this old thread back to life again.
I just test drove a 2020 Zero S earlier today, and I can't get that thing off my mind. I've been away from riding motorcycles for about 15 years. I'm going through all kinds of rationalization exercises to convince myself that I need to get an electric motorcycle.
Does anyone own a Zero in Texas? How has battery degradation held up in the Texas heat? It doesn't look like the Zero has any active battery cooling or heating. I've only recently started searching the forums for any discussions on electric motorcycles and the Zero in particular. I'm keen to see from Zero owners how your battery range has held up over the years.
I just test drove a 2020 Zero S earlier today, and I can't get that thing off my mind. I've been away from riding motorcycles for about 15 years. I'm going through all kinds of rationalization exercises to convince myself that I need to get an electric motorcycle.
Does anyone own a Zero in Texas? How has battery degradation held up in the Texas heat? It doesn't look like the Zero has any active battery cooling or heating. I've only recently started searching the forums for any discussions on electric motorcycles and the Zero in particular. I'm keen to see from Zero owners how your battery range has held up over the years.
Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
Its not the battery that usually overheats, in the earlier models they didn't use permanent magnet AC motors and they would go into reduced power mode to protect the "glued on magnets" in the electric motor. The new Z-Force 75-10 enhanced thermal efficiency, passively air-cooled, interior permanent magnet AC motor eliminated that issue. I love my 2013 Zero FX, and have only had the overheat protection kick in a couple of times, once I was towing a Klondike Derby Sled with about 200 lbs of scouts on it, and the reduced power output after about ten minutes of towing them cross county through the snow at other times I hit the thermal limit when riding full throttle for 10 minutes on the highway, the newer bikes from zero don't have this issue due to the newer PM AC Motors. My bike is amazing, I have even carried it on a bike carrier on the back of my Model S (it only weights 151 lbs) with the batteries out.
Get one... just be careful with the throttle, my first day I was "accidentally" (78 FT-LB of torque and 251 lbs) doing wheelies from every light, at the bottom of the throttle range.
They still product the older motor in the FX, but the S has the new PM AC Motor...
Get one... just be careful with the throttle, my first day I was "accidentally" (78 FT-LB of torque and 251 lbs) doing wheelies from every light, at the bottom of the throttle range.
They still product the older motor in the FX, but the S has the new PM AC Motor...
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Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
I just saw a Zero today stopped at a traffic light.
But thereafter I would say that I only saw it's shade as it disappeared in the blink of an eye with no noise when the light went green...
I like the "silent" video... but I'm sure some riders will find a way to make their bike noticeable "for security reason" ...
Don't you saw how much fun those Harley Davidson drivers with a modified exhaust bike
enjoy waking up everyone at 3 am after leaving their favorite Dive bar.
mkspeedr
Member
I have 7,000 miles on my SRF in 9 months. I rode the SR/S - possibly the best commute motorcycle in the world.
I own a lot of motorcycles but I can never commute on a ICE bike again. The Zero is awesome.
I own a lot of motorcycles but I can never commute on a ICE bike again. The Zero is awesome.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
mkspeedr
Member
I have ridden the SR (short ride), the SRF 7,000 miles and the new SRS (short ride). I love the SRF but the SRS is the best commute bike ever made (provided your commute is within range).
Cheburashka
Active Member
When the SR/S was launched I thought "meh..."
But in person it looks fantastic.
Raced one on the freeway (yeah, I know, I know) and it pulls hard.
I far prefer it's looks to the Energicas. My real gripe with them is that, at that price point, I want fast charging, which they do not offer. Although not a necessity for my commute, it's a nice to have in case I need to go somewhere unplanned.
The Energicas do have DC fast charging but they weigh 650lb which is insane for something that is not a touring bike.
But in person it looks fantastic.
Raced one on the freeway (yeah, I know, I know) and it pulls hard.
I far prefer it's looks to the Energicas. My real gripe with them is that, at that price point, I want fast charging, which they do not offer. Although not a necessity for my commute, it's a nice to have in case I need to go somewhere unplanned.
The Energicas do have DC fast charging but they weigh 650lb which is insane for something that is not a touring bike.
mkspeedr
Member
For commuting - I don't need the fast charging. So it is perfect. So funny but when I ride my gas bikes I hate going out of the way to get gas. The SR/F just needs another 30 miles of range for a good Sunday ride.
Fishy Fish
Member
That extra weight probably accounts for the fast charging to a large degree. To add that capability to a bike, especially truly fast charging, would probably require active battery cooling (ie fan, radiator, water pump)which means more space for the same sized battery with added active cooling hardware & liquids and way more weight. But I don't think the Energica & Harley have any of that active cooling, just the CCS port and high input hardware/wiring.
Although the Energica and Harley offer DC fast, I haven't seen a review that would put the speed of it anywhere near Tesla or average electric car rates. In fact, Energica's site says a rate of 20kw and 20min to 80/85% for those bikes, for 13.3-15.5 kwh packs? So about twice as fast as Zero J1772 level 2 times (12kw, 1hr to 95%), but not close to electric car rates.
Edit - I see Harley's site says DC fast charging is 0-80% in 40 minutes, 0-100% in 60 minutes, for 15.5kwh pack. And the level 2 rate is the same as level 1 @ 22km/hr. So 0-95% isn't going to be that different from Zero's level 2 times, and Harley's level 2 times are way slower than Zero's. There are an awful lot of free level 2 chargers out in the world. Not so many paid CCS.
I will also say that Zero's website regarding charging options are confusing AF. I've been there dozens of times and always have to go back for 10 minutes to double check and clarify.
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Fishy Fish
Member
Thinking about the Harley's fast charging some more, you can only fast charge at CCS and for the time being, and from my understanding, CCS in most areas calculates cost by time instead of kwh used (until a year or two in California). So charging the Harley for 40 min @ maybe 15kw on CCS is going to cost the same as charging a Kia at their max 70kw rate for their 64kwh battery for 40 min. Which might make the Harley more expensive to fill than putting gas in an ordinary bike. Charging level 1 or 2 at home or work will be cheap, but slow.
I was going to say that the Zero with 12kw level 2 charging seems like the best option still for charging, when it comes to cost (~$24000), weight and charging speed, but I couldn't find prices for the Energica. The best I could find was this Rideapart article from earlier this year where it seems they will be $20000, have new larger batteries at 21kwh, and from the pics they do appear to have radiators and thus perhaps active liquid cooling. So apart from the weight, perhaps these do make more sense than the Zero's, at least when it comes to tripping with the need for quick charge stops. Greater range, bigger battery, and faster charging. Like was mentioned though, heavy. And I couldn't find info on level 2 charge speed.
Energica Electric Motorcycles Pre-Orders, Production Way Up
I was going to say that the Zero with 12kw level 2 charging seems like the best option still for charging, when it comes to cost (~$24000), weight and charging speed, but I couldn't find prices for the Energica. The best I could find was this Rideapart article from earlier this year where it seems they will be $20000, have new larger batteries at 21kwh, and from the pics they do appear to have radiators and thus perhaps active liquid cooling. So apart from the weight, perhaps these do make more sense than the Zero's, at least when it comes to tripping with the need for quick charge stops. Greater range, bigger battery, and faster charging. Like was mentioned though, heavy. And I couldn't find info on level 2 charge speed.
Energica Electric Motorcycles Pre-Orders, Production Way Up
Cheburashka
Active Member
I haven't seen any 12kw level 2 stations in the US. It's always either 3.3 or 6.6kW.
Some 21kwh Energicas have already been delivered here.
Many chargers still charge by kwh so it's not all that bad.
Some 21kwh Energicas have already been delivered here.
Many chargers still charge by kwh so it's not all that bad.
Fishy Fish
Member
Ah yes, I hadn't considered that there aren't many 12kw chargers around. Still learning and I had assumed most were. That helps explain the slow charging times for most Zero reviews doing tripping. Makes the $2300 J1772 "Charge tank" option on the Zero's much less appealing.
As far as I know with most of the new CCS that's being installed in Canada, it's all by the hour rather than kwh. Might still make the Energica as expensive as gas, if not more, even with the faster than Harley CCS. Cleaner though. And heavy.
Fishy Fish
Member
Just watching the below HD Livewire video where a HD employee states that for the warranty to be valid, the level 1 to level 3 charging ratio must be 4:1. So only one DC fast charge cycle for every 4 AC level one cycles. I imagine the average commuter will not exceed that ratio, but for someone only riding weekends who might do more tripping and fast charging, seems like it might be a big let down, as the possibility of that ratio being off might be greater. Especially since some of their dealers offer free DC fast charging, and Electrify America offers the first 500 kwh free.
Couldn't find any specific warranty info on the Harley website or livewire product page.
Comment is made at the 13 minute mark:
He goes into more detail throughout the rest of the video about what happens if you exceed the ratio. Basically, if the battery isn't holding a charge, Harley would apply for a warranty with their battery partner and the decision would be made from looking at the bike's battery health report, which is also provided/recorded any time it's serviced.
Couldn't find any specific warranty info on the Harley website or livewire product page.
Comment is made at the 13 minute mark:
He goes into more detail throughout the rest of the video about what happens if you exceed the ratio. Basically, if the battery isn't holding a charge, Harley would apply for a warranty with their battery partner and the decision would be made from looking at the bike's battery health report, which is also provided/recorded any time it's serviced.
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