What if Tesla would give P85D owners free ludicrous update?

[Krugerrand]

It says 691 Motor Power. Many understood it to mean 691 hp delivered to and measured at the output shaft.

Uh, huh. So they understood wrong. *shrug*

- - - Updated - - -

No, not the pony trick again.
I fell for that and ended up empty handed (got some rep points out of it, that's all.)

TMC has been falsely advertising that pony on page 78 of the catalog for years now. I'm tired of it. Something has to be done. Who's interested in a class action suit?

 

[mspohr]

No, not the pony trick again.
I fell for that and ended up empty handed (got some rep points out of it, that's all.)

I'm going for the rep points. (What else is there that's worth anything?)

 

[Matias]

Uh, huh. So they understood wrong. *shrug*

And Tesla did not correct that misunderstanding. For instance every review of the car starts with 691 hp. For some reason Tesla did not feel necessary to correct those reviews although Tesla has been very eager to correct some mistakes in the press...

 

[wk057]

In the other thread where it's made quite clear Tesla screwed us P85D owners on the horsepower front I made a post on exactly why they would not give this update for free. I'll quote it here for simplicity:

Unfortunately, based on the little bits of info I've gathered on this, I'm doubting Tesla will actually do the upgrades for free.

Changing their tune on that now, while it would likely mean that such a lawsuit could be avoided just because customers concerned about it would likely be appeased, probably won't happen for a few reasons:

a) They're still selling the Ludicrous mode changes as a $10,000 add-on for new P85Ds, meaning that if you don't choose that option you're still getting the power output that exists currently... which is totally unspecified so can be whatever they want really. So one way people would see this would be that they're giving existing owners a $10,000 upgrade for free.
b) More importantly, offering it for free to existing owners, especially if it is to fix their initial claims of 691 HP, would essentially be admitting their initial false advertising and thus likely making such a lawsuit easier for them to lose. While currently there are many owners who aren't even aware of this issue due to the impressive 0-40-ish straight line speed, many more would become aware of the initial issue if this were the case and thus many more chances for them to be sued. Keep in mind that the majority seem to be dismissive of this issue for whatever reason.
c) I'm not convinced the P90DL (or whatever we're calling it) or a Ludicrous-updated P85D is going to be capable of reaching the originally advertised 691 HP number on a dyno anyway, making such a giveaway to fix the original false advertising not really a fix anyway.

No matter how you slice it, providing the 691 HP number was false advertising. This isn't something the media pulled out of their butts, folks, like a lot of other numbers thrown around about Tesla. This was on the Tesla order page when I bought my P85D. While they may be able to get a pass on a technicality currently by not actually showing the combined number anymore for current buyers they certainly do not for anyone who purchased while the order page showed 691 HP. Combining the output numbers implies that the car could output this much power. Period. Since multiple tests confirm that it comes no where close, I'm pretty sure the implications of this are pretty black and white.

A free or at least reasonably priced (maybe $1-2k) update to make the car get reasonably close to the advertised 691 HP would be fine by me and would certainly put legal action out of my mind and the minds of many others, but at the same time it would likes put the thought in other's minds who hadn't previously considered it and who are previously unaware of this issue.

Currently no service center or person I've spoken with at Tesla even has any info whatsoever on the P85D Ludicrous mode retrofit nor any information on when it will be available for purchase... which I find odd since the CEO made a public announcement on the cost and all and many I spoke with weren't even aware of those details.

Tesla's lack of communication strikes once again.

 

[Matias]

Here is Elon saying car has 691 hp.

https://youtu.be/p6Y-QAHDGpQ?t=2m4s

 

[wk057]

Here is Elon saying car has 691 hp.

https://youtu.be/p6Y-QAHDGpQ?t=2m4s

@Matias - One thing we know for sure at this point is that the fan boys and girls wouldn't care if it said 691 HP on the window sticker, the website, or if a tattoo on the CEO's face also confirms it. They'll still find some way to spin it so that we're wrong for pointing out that Tesla screwed us over on horsepower when multiple tests show it's incapable of reaching the advertised value. lol.

 

[bonnie]

@Matias - One thing we know for sure at this point is that the fan boys and girls wouldn't care if it said 691 HP on the window sticker, the website, or if a tattoo on the CEO's face also confirms it. They'll still find some way to spin it so that we're wrong for pointing out that Tesla screwed us over on horsepower when multiple tests show it's incapable of reaching the advertised value. lol.

Yet another plea from me that people quit with the 'fanboy/girl' labels. You could have said the same thing without dismissing anyone who happens to not think this is an issue. People are entitled to differing opinions without being automatically labeled in a dismissive way. No better than if someone came into this thread calling everyone who thought Tesla was in the wrong, 'a troll'.

Please.

 

[wk057]

Yet another plea from me that people quit with the 'fanboy/girl' labels. You could have said the same thing without dismissing anyone who happens to not think this is an issue. People are entitled to differing opinions without being automatically labeled in a dismissive way. No better than if someone came into this thread calling everyone who thought Tesla was in the wrong, 'a troll'.

Please.

You know, I thought about this. However, without getting into a huge debate, it is pretty obvious there are different standards set by the fanboys vs someone who simply doesn't think this is an issue. My comments were not directed at those people who have a legitimate reason why this is not an issue. However when the same people come back time and time again with the same excuses that have already been debunked as to why they think this isn't an issue... well, that's the definition of fanboy-ism... essentially refusing to accept the truth even when it slaps you in the face. And there are certainly multiple slaps here.

 

[Krugerrand]

And Tesla did not correct that misunderstanding.

Oh, noes! There goes the sky....again.

- - - Updated - - -

...it is pretty obvious there are different standards set by the fanboys vs someone who simply doesn't think this is an issue.

I noticed Home Depot has super-wide paint brushes on sale this weekend.

 

[bonnie]

You know, I thought about this. However, without getting into a huge debate, it is pretty obvious there are different standards set by the fanboys vs someone who simply doesn't think this is an issue. My comments were not directed at those people who have a legitimate reason why this is not an issue. However when the same people come back time and time again with the same excuses that have already been debunked as to why they think this isn't an issue... well, that's the definition of fanboy-ism... essentially refusing to accept the truth even when it slaps you in the face. And there are certainly multiple slaps here.

I'm not saying civility shouldn't be expected on all sides. I'm asking that a specific label not be thrown about so freely. 'Troll' is unacceptable and unnecessarily escalates a conversation. 'Fanboy' is no better. It implies that group isn't capable of critical thought and their opinion is based solely on a blind defense of a company. And I just wish we'd stop with that. (I know I'm tilting at windmills, but I do that sometimes. )

Your comments may not have been directed at those who you judge as having a legitimate reason to disagree, but the impact upon their comments still remains. Their opinion has been dismissed as one of a fanboy.

 

[Saghost]

This is screenshot taken soon after the reveal of P85D

View attachment 90606

It says 691 Motor Power. Many understood it to mean 691 hp delivered to and measured at the output shaft.

Ah. Had not seen that, and a quick fish through sites and press releases didn't turn it up. Saying directly that without any comments on battery limits does seem rather misleading.
Walter

 

[wk057]

Your comments may not have been directed at those who you judge as having a legitimate reason to disagree, but the impact upon their comments still remains. Their opinion has been dismissed as one of a fanboy.

So be it.

 

[sorka]

This is screenshot taken soon after the reveal of P85D

View attachment 90606

It says 691 Motor Power. Many understood it to mean 691 hp delivered to and measured at the output shaft.

That's correct. All manufacturers rate their motor power at the shaft. This is just so we don't think they mean at the wheels, or the battery, or somewhere else.

The 691 hp listing was only just removed few months ago after the firestorm of 1000+ message threads on this issue.

- - - Updated - - -

Uh, huh. So they understood wrong. *shrug*

That's right. We did understand wrong because that's clearly not what Tesla delivered even though every car sold in the US that has a horsepower rating actually produces that horsepower at the motor shaft. In rare cases manufactures overstate the horsepower. Mazda did this with the RX8. They overstated it by 10 hp and sued in what turned into a class action. In the end they were forced to by back RX8s for being off by a mere 10 hp. Tesla is off by almost 150 hp.

- - - Updated - - -

And Tesla did not correct that misunderstanding. For instance every review of the car starts with 691 hp. For some reason Tesla did not feel necessary to correct those reviews although Tesla has been very eager to correct some mistakes in the press...

We don't know that they didn't but it does seem unlikely that if Tesla sent out a notice to all mags and publications that have printed the 691 hp figure that they all would have ignored it.

 

[Krugerrand]

That's right. We did understand wrong because that's clearly not what Tesla delivered even though every car sold in the US that has a horsepower rating actually produces that horsepower at the motor shaft.

There's a lot things people have, and still do, misunderstand about EVs. Fortunately, humans have displayed over thousands of years the capacity to learn, change and adapt.

 

[sorka]

Oh, noes! There goes the sky....again.

Classic. And there you go *proving* wk057's point.

 

[Krugerrand]

Classic. And there you go *proving* wk057's point.

I'm happy to oblige in any way. I wouldn't want to upset anyone's reality.

 

[sorka]

There's a lot things people have, and still do, misunderstand about EVs. Fortunately, humans have displayed over thousands of years the capacity to learn, change and adapt.

And clearly you fall into that camp of those that don't understand EVs. That's fine. You're allowed.

 

[wk057]

Hmm.. I still fail to see how EV vs ICE vs steam vs whatever has anything to do with this particular issue.

horse·pow·er (noun) - a unit of power equal to 550 foot-pounds per second (745.7 watts).

Pretty sure the definition of horsepower doesn't give a crap whether or not it's a Tesla EV motor, a '79 Yugo's ICE, or 600 oompa loompas pulling ropes wrapped around a shaft.

The fact remains that there is no method that will measure 691 HP from anywhere on an unmodified P85D.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

Some P85D owners are upset, some are not. I'd say the ones who are upset are in the minority. To the extent they complain directly and privately with Tesla, they might very well get some additional accommodation. But no need to apply this to everyone. Just because you feel an injustice has been done here doesn't mean everyone else needs your help "correcting" it.

I, for one, remain happy that my 4 door, 5+2 passenger sedan weighing 4900lbs can accelerate 0-60 faster than damn near any other car in production, short of a $260,000 two-seater McLaren. Do the math and wonder why all those other Ferraris, Lambos, and Porsches don't perform better despite their stated horsepower and weight. Perhaps their owners should be entitled to some upgrade, too.

 

[FlasherZ]

No, not the pony trick again.
I fell for that and ended up empty handed (got some rep points out of it, that's all.)

Bonnie received her pony. You must not have seen the disclaimer in the catalog:
(*)1 pony at this price, stock # 0017B.