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Sparrow
S105/ Roadster 189
I had problems with my HPC so I bought a Clipper Creek J1772 EVSE and use Henry Sharp's great adapter to charge my Roadster.
That was my thought unless the Wall Connector was similarly priced to an extra Connector.
OK, I have a reason to get twin chargers now (and so does mknox): Sun Country Highway is installing 90 amp chargers across Canada, and *soon* (SW Ontario coming in *September* apparently). With public chargers available, the twin chargers suddenly make a lot of sense.
Which makes the HPWC make more sense.... sigh.
Which makes the HPWC make more sense.... sigh.
Even if you get twin chargers, there's no compelling reason to use that extra capacity at home. Roadster owners posting here have uniformly indicated that 40A charging at home is adequate in nearly every situation.
It seems odd, however, that (if I were to get twin chargers) the most effective way for me to drive from Fremont to Boston might be via Manitoba.....
I would literally never use it at home.
However, it's somehow more compelling to offer it to visitors if it is extending an existing network of chargers...
...though maybe it might make more sense to contact Sun Country and see whether I could convince them to install chargers in upstate NY.
Well, that's what happens when charging installation groups are "local" and only some of them know what they're doing! You end up with weird routes.
That's really great news! I had also heard Tesla was planning some Supercharger stations along the Hwy 401 route through southern Ontario. I had planned on twin chargers already, even though I'll never be able to make use of it at home.
On a related note, it may take some serious work to get a 50 amp circuit to my garage. There is a dedicated run of #14/2 to the garage for a single 120 volt outlet. In theory, I could re-purpose that to a 15 amp 240 volt line and install a NEMA 6-15 outlet. This would give me 12 amps at 240 volts, which should re-fill my 80 mile daily use in about 9 hours. This is actually do-able and I could re-charge at entirely off-peak rates (7:00 pm to 7:00 am).
Anyone know if Tesla makes a NEMA 6-15 adapter?
They do for the Roadster, and I was told it will eventually be available for the Model S, but possibly not at initial release.
on the charging page where they discuss the adapters (http://www.teslamotors.com/models/charging#/outlet) they state officially that they will support nemas 5-15, 14-50, 6-50, 10-30 and 14-30 if that helps.
mitch672
Active Member
You can build your own, OpenEVSE's new firmware now allows adjusting the pilot signal, via a 1 button menu sytem.
You could set it at 12A for your 15A 240V circuit, and put whatever connector on the cable you would like.
The other news is, Leviton now sells a 30A capable, 25' J-1772 cable for $126, that used to be the most expensive part of building your own EVSE, it no longer is.
My first OpenEVSE build, costs about $400 to build one now:
http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/EVSE_by_mwolrich
Home page, you can see the menu system
http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/
Leviton 25' J-1772 cable:
Level 2, 30A, J1772 Compliant Electric Vehicle Charge Connector with 25' EV rated Charge Cord Only, A3435-PEV : J1772 Charge Connector and Cable
I am currently constructing a 75A version with a SquareD heavy duty contactor, total cost is under $700, which is still better than $1,200 for the WHPC, once you wire it up, you can set the current to whatever you want (up to %80 of the circuit ampacity of course).
You could set it at 12A for your 15A 240V circuit, and put whatever connector on the cable you would like.
The other news is, Leviton now sells a 30A capable, 25' J-1772 cable for $126, that used to be the most expensive part of building your own EVSE, it no longer is.
My first OpenEVSE build, costs about $400 to build one now:
http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/EVSE_by_mwolrich
Home page, you can see the menu system
http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/
Leviton 25' J-1772 cable:
Level 2, 30A, J1772 Compliant Electric Vehicle Charge Connector with 25' EV rated Charge Cord Only, A3435-PEV : J1772 Charge Connector and Cable
I am currently constructing a 75A version with a SquareD heavy duty contactor, total cost is under $700, which is still better than $1,200 for the WHPC, once you wire it up, you can set the current to whatever you want (up to %80 of the circuit ampacity of course).
I did see that, but wasn't sure that it was meant to be a comprehensive list. Now that I look at it again, I think it may be.
What do the cars do if you change the pilot mid-charge? Seems like there's a big need for more intelligent chargers:
1. For single-car charging situations, to adjust the charge rate to reflect load elsewhere in the house (could use one of those RF senders you attach near the meter for energy consumption displays to get the info to the charger). This is a first step towards proper smart-grid demand management, which is one of the huge roles electric cars have to play.
2. For two-car garages, to direct the available current to the car that most needs it. Maybe you've got 70A available: if you install two HPWC or similar, you've got to set them to 35A each (or some asymmetric
arrangement and manually juggle them between the two cars). Yet 90% of the time when one car arrives and needs charging, the other one is either not there, or is sitting there already fully charged and just needs the trickle for battery maintenance.
3. For public charging locations, similarly to 2) but on a bigger scale. Hotels aren't going to want to fit (say) 1000-amp service to supply 10 parking bays when the real need is for much less than that. Even if you assume that all the hotel guests are driving 85kWh Model S, those staying overnight only need 40A even if they arrive totally empty - and most of them will arrive partially charged and need even less. Some will be Leafs or Model S without twin charger and so can't charge very fast anyhow. On the other hand, there will be the odd person arriving during the day and wanting max possible charging while they have lunch/business meeting/whatever. This could be achieved with various parking bays with different capacity service to them, but will be hugely inconvenient to manage.
Cases 2) and 3) could be much better solved by a multi-output EVSE that starts off offering (via the pilot level) an equal share of the available power to all of the ports that currently have a car plugged in. It would then monitor the actual current drawn (over a period of a few minutes), and if one car is consistently drawing less current than it has been offered then the pilot for that output can be wound down a bit and that for the other ports increased. When a new car plugs in, if existing cars are using all the available power, they each have to be wound down a bit to offer some power to the new car. This doesn't quite give the optimum sharing in the hotel situation (in the early evening, cars that don't need much charge will be charging faster than they need, then at the end of the night there will be excess capacity available; however, it's probably the best that can be done without getting the drivers to plan their charging (and the ones that want to be helpful can do so by turning down the charge rate in their vehicles).
I'm surprised that people like Clipper Creek aren't already selling something like this, as it seems easy to do and much more useful than a bunch of independent chargers.
There's no reason you have to use a 15-amp connector just because you have 15-amp wiring and breaker. You can always put in higher rated connector so you can use a 10-30 or 14-30 no problem. Just be sure to tell the car the correct charging current so you don't trip the breaker when it's charging.
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There are Code issues with that, but I get your point.
I think I'm going to stick with my original plan of wiring the garage for a NEMA 14-50 and converting my range and dryer to gas (things I have wanted to do anyway). My house is older, and the range is on a 40 amp circuit (new ones are 50 amp) and my dryer is on a 30 amp circuit.
Aside from gas being less expensive than electricity, I find my range and dryer are usually running during mid or on-peak rate periods, so it should be even more economical having these appliances running on gas.
pilotSteve
Active Member
Any word on when the HPWC will ship? I've not seen anyone post they have received theirs yet. I emailed my rep and he said it was "not shipping yet because UL approval not received".
I'm wired with a 100A service to a box for the HPWC. I can't easily attach these very large gauge wires to a NEMA 14-50 connector, so I really want to have my HPWC installed before I take delivery.
I'm wired with a 100A service to a box for the HPWC. I can't easily attach these very large gauge wires to a NEMA 14-50 connector, so I really want to have my HPWC installed before I take delivery.
mitch672
Active Member
You can get a few "knuckles" at Home Depot, and clamp the large 3AWG cables to some 6AWG cables, should only need 3 of them (2 Hots & Ground, leave off the Neutral), and make up your 14-50 until the HPWC arrives...
Mitch
You wouldn't really want to do that anyway. You'd have a 50 amp rated device (the NEMA 14-50) connected to a 100 amp circuit which is an electrical no-no.
You could connect a 50 amp sub to the panel in the garage and run #6 to a plug if you had to.
Cottonwood
Roadster#433, Model S#S37
The solution is to put wire in the wall that is rated for the 100A breaker and the HPWC. For now, put in a 50A breaker in the panel, and where the HPWC will eventually go, put a wiring box on the wall. In the box use whatever is reasonable to connect the 100A, #2 or #3 copper to 50A, #6 copper. Now mount the 14-50 on the outside of the wiring box connected with the #6 wire that will fit in the 14-50 outlet. This is all code legal.
When the HPWC arrives, change the breaker to 100A, remove the wiring box, and connect the HPWC to the thick wire that will carry 100A where the wiring box was.
Good Luck!
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