Told sudden permanent 15 mile loss of range is "normal"

[mknox]

Oddly enough, my numbers seem to have gone up. When I got my car in early March I was seeing 239 Rated miles after a full standard charge. I then started seeing 240 and am now seeing 242. I am on software version 4.4 and have a bit over 4,000 miles on the car.

 

[Owner]

There's now word going around that rated range does indeed take driving habits into account. Someone on the Tesla Model S owners Facebook page said that a Tesla service employee from the factory told him this.

I don't believe it for a minute, but thought I'd toss it out there.

A service guy at Menlo Park did tell me that also! Don't remember his name as I had just gotten used to Johnny after Jake changed jobs.

 

[MikeC]

Sorry to hear that they didn't address this problem. I remember you reporting this in a previous thread and it seemed pretty excessive to me, not in line with others' experiences. I will certainly be disappointed if mine drops that much when I'm at 13k miles.

 

[T@oo]

Im seeing anywhere from 800 to 1000 km prospected range on my ICE everytime I fill it up. Should I complain with BMW? Lemmon law? Should I be pissed and rant in a forum or should I just drive that damn thing and check the gas actually used when empty again ? Well, maybe there's a factor called driving style, you know. **** happends.

 

[Todd Burch]

My understanding was that it would decrease somewhat gradually; not over one night. Do you really think that this is normal?

The only reason I could see that happening is if a module failed. Since your modules were apparently checked and fine, I'm more inclined to think it's just a glitch with the range calculation algorithm. Range calculation on an EV is, of course, complicated stuff.

 

[jerry33]

The only reason I could see that happening is if a module failed. Since your modules were apparently checked and fine, I'm more inclined to think it's just a glitch with the range calculation algorithm. Range calculation on an EV is, of course, complicated stuff.

^^^ This one. Particularly if it happened right after an upgrade. It's unlikely that a battery would change overnight unless there was a detectible problem. Far more likely that the algorithm changed. (I haven't noticed any difference after the 4.4 upgrade.)

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

What testing have you done with the charging?

One "Normal" feature that I have seen mentioned (and may be applicable here) is that when you have it plugged into the charger, it charges to full then stops. Range will fall (from normal vampire losses), then when it reaches a certain level the charger kicks on again and the cycle repeats. The range it does this in is consistent with the charge numbers you are mentioning.

A quick test would be to unplug from your charger, drive for a few minutes and then plug back in and watch it to see if it goes higher than 235.

If it's not that, then my best guess would be some software change. I'm not really aware of anyone who has seen their true maximum charges fall that much. Only their actual charges (because of how the cycling works).

- - - Updated - - -

Just read the 4.5 release notes and it has this -

Battery Support
When Model S is plugged in but not actively charging it will draw energy from the wall rather than using energy stored in the battery, e.g., when you've turned on climate control to cool/heat the cabin or when you're sitting in your car and using the touchscreen while it's parked.

So 4.5 would obviously solve the issue I mentioned regarding the state of charge cycling.

Edit: And it also suggests another issue besides just vampire losses affecting your charge cycling. If you were scheduling a particular cabin temperature for 30 minutes before you get in the car (as an example) that would generally have drawn power from the battery in the past, and the charger would only have kicked in after the SOC had fallen below the target level. If you follow the same routine you would see the same charge level when you got in the car. That also would be fixed by 4.5.

 

[aviators99]

What testing have you done with the charging?

One "Normal" feature that I have seen mentioned (and may be applicable here) is that when you have it plugged into the charger, it charges to full then stops. Range will fall (from normal vampire losses), then when it reaches a certain level the charger kicks on again and the cycle repeats. The range it does this in is consistent with the charge numbers you are mentioning.

A quick test would be to unplug from your charger, drive for a few minutes and then plug back in and watch it to see if it goes higher than 235.

If it's not that, then my best guess would be some software change. I'm not really aware of anyone who has seen their true maximum charges fall that much. Only their actual charges (because of how the cycling works).

- - - Updated - - -

Just read the 4.5 release notes and it has this -



So 4.5 would obviously solve the issue I mentioned regarding the state of charge cycling.

Edit: And it also suggests another issue besides just vampire losses affecting your charge cycling. If you were scheduling a particular cabin temperature for 30 minutes before you get in the car (as an example) that would generally have drawn power from the battery in the past, and the charger would only have kicked in after the SOC had fallen below the target level. If you follow the same routine you would see the same charge level when you got in the car. That also would be fixed by 4.5.

As I've mentioned, I've only quoted numbers that are at the exact point charging is finished.

 

[FlasherZ]

I have found a few miles drop if I don't use the car after it has been on charge for a while, but I have backed the car out of the garage to get at things easier and then put the car back in and plugged back in and the miles mysteriously reappear, i don't think it's a case of degradation it may be more a case of battery temperature and gauge sensitivity that is actually measuring the charge.

I see the same thing, although I lose them immediately after the charge completes. For example, if my car shows 230 and I plug it in, 10 seconds later it will show my car has 234 or so miles... when it reaches 240 miles, and the charge completes, 15 seconds later it will show 236 or so.

 

[Trnsl8r]

I actually had a similar experience as OP, although not as drastic. I would typically show 242 miles after a standard charge, routinely. Then the main charger broke and had to be replaced. Since then I have never seen it over 240, mostly around 238. When the charger broke (again) I asked them to check out the battery, which they did, it checked out and got an answer along the lines of estimated range varies depending on blah, blah, and blah...

Wondering if the software update is to "blame". Not sure, but still... after 5000 miles of seeing 242, suddenly seeing 240 (at best) was a bit disconcerting.

 

[aaron.s]

I actually had a similar experience as OP, although not as drastic. I would typically show 242 miles after a standard charge, routinely. Then the main charger broke and had to be replaced. Since then I have never seen it over 240, mostly around 238. When the charger broke (again) I asked them to check out the battery, which they did, it checked out and got an answer along the lines of estimated range varies depending on blah, blah, and blah...

Wondering if the software update is to "blame". Not sure, but still... after 5000 miles of seeing 242, suddenly seeing 240 (at best) was a bit disconcerting.

After the update to 4.4 - my 242 standard charge has gone down to 240 as well....

Aaron

 

[mknox]

After the update to 4.4 - my 242 standard charge has gone down to 240 as well....

...and I'm getting just the opposite. I was getting 239 on 4.2 and now on 4.4 I'm seeing 241 or 242 right after a Normal charge completes. I thought it was probably just a software thing too, but it's curious I'm going in the opposite direction. It's also been getting warmer in my neck of the woods, so could that have something to do with it too?

 

[Rodolfo Paiz]

For most people, this may just be a case of "too much information". When we drove ICEs, sediment and stuff settled to the bottom of the tank and you could never be sure whether 18.1 gallons or 18.2 were usable in your tank. Range was never precise. Now that the car can report range with such precision, we find it unsettling to see 1% or 2% variations. I say don't worry about it.

The OP has a different scenario: 5% is statistically significant. But here again, though for different reasons, I would counsel not being too concerned about it. Bring it to the attention of Tesla and have them check it, then keep your records and notes of that. But keep driving the car and see what happens in the next 13,000 miles. This problem is still at the stage of your kid having a fever and sniffling... you can't tell (yet) if it's going to be serious, or if it'll work itself out. Monitor the car is about the only thing you can do for awhile: more data is required to troubleshoot this problem.

 

[huntjo]

Bring it to the attention of Tesla and have them check it, then keep your records and notes of that. But keep driving the car and see what happens in the next 13,000 miles. This problem is still at the stage of your kid having a fever and sniffling... you can't tell (yet) if it's going to be serious, or if it'll work itself out. Monitor the car is about the only thing you can do for awhile: more data is required to troubleshoot this problem.

I second this and applaud the apt analogy

 

[Cattledog]

Aviator - My recent experience tracks yours. When new in January, typically charged to 238. Did a coupla max to 266. Dropped a coupla miles the next 2 months, and in the past month I now get 224-226 and 259 for max (done 5-6 max charges in 4 months). Need to call Tesla in CA (cause I can't do that in TX yet...)

 

[ClearwaterBchSteve]

Prior to software v4.4, my "standard" range was typically 242-243 miles after charge. After 4.4 was installed, it's now 237-238. This is a very negligible change and one of the "fixes" in 4.4 was supposedly adjustments to the range calculation so this is likely a correction rather than a degredation. I have about 2500 miles on the car with a small average daily commute, and at this point I'm not concerned. However, if the range continues to "drop" month to month this early in the game, I will be.

 

[Trnsl8r]

Looking a little closer I see now I'm updated to 4.4. 90% sure TM did that during the repair, that's why I didn't connect the change.

 

[Andrew Wolfe]

I had a sudden drop last night from my normal 241/242 standard charge (depending whether I check it at 7AM or 8AM) - to 226 this morning. Still investigating.

 

[Cattledog]

Andrew - Our experiences track.

 

[Todd Burch]

This has got to be a software thing then. Which, I guess, is good news.