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The P85 is now obsolete.

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#21
+1 HLR

I was worried when they axed the P85+ but kept the P85, now happy that all the "P" models are gone except 4WD. There will always be a market for fast RWD only cars. Mine is lighter than the P85D, less complex with one motor, much larger frunk (the P85D frunk looks about half the size - lost the "microwave and then some...), and will fit a nice price point. Yay.
 
#22
We are all going to have our different opinions and rationale about this topic for sure, and that is 100% completely understandable. But then again, we are currently financially invested in our vehicles so our opinions are slightly biased.

I am specifically saying that to new potential Tesla buyers or the general public, the P85 has been rendered obsolete. This is especially true if someone today decides he wants to go out and purchase Tesla's performance car, which is now the P85D, and not the P85. The P85 will now only exist in the second hand market and can not be purchased as new, kind of like when a new 2014 HDTV is released and then pulled off the shelves and replaced with a newer/better model. This is exactly why HDTV's depreciate extremely quick. You can also look at it like the P85 is the iPhone 5S and the P85D is the 6. The Model S is great, but it has the same sentiment as most other technological gadgets out there, especially the way Elon goes about hyping the "newer, better" versions.

At the end of the day the P85 is a great car, and will always be- but it is disappointing it was retired so early on in it's life.

Just the other day a guy was walking out of Albertsons as my wife and I were loading groceries and he said "Nice car.. I love those. Is that the one that can drive itself?" I replied "No, my car was built right before the autopilot stuff was announced" and his reply- "Yep, I read that the newer cars are coming with those features" Awesome.. here I was sitting with my "brand new" P85, no license plate yet, and some guy referred to the self-driving cars as "newer" and in his mind I had the older one. This is a great example of how these features are being marketed and hyped making potential Tesla buyers and the general public thinking of the Model S like a smartphone- when new features come out, the previous version is "old".
 
#25
The P85 is certainly not "obsolete". That is an absurd statement. It remains an awesome vehicle and will be desirable for years to come. The P85D is far more costly than the P85 and there will certainly be a good market for used P85 cars. Look at the P85 from the perspective of someone who has never owned a Tesla, which is almost everyone: it is an amazing car just as it is!

It is important to accept the fact that Tesla is a technologically driven company that is innovating rapidly. Every few years they are going to introduce major improvements to their products, which are constantly being incrementally improved. Get used to it because that is the reality...
 
#26
Perfect_Flaw said:
Just the other day a guy was walking out of Albertsons as my wife and I were loading groceries and he said "Nice car.. I love those. Is that the one that can drive itself?" I replied "No, my car was built right before the autopilot stuff was announced" and his reply- "Yep, I read that the newer cars are coming with those features" Awesome.. here I was sitting with my "brand new" P85, no license plate yet, and some guy referred to the self-driving cars as "newer" and in his mind I had the older one. This is a great example of how these features are being marketed and hyped making potential Tesla buyers and the general public thinking of the Model S like a smartphone- when new features come out, the previous version is "old".
Click to expand...

It's yet another rehashing of the same topic, but it is unfortunately for you, a previous generation model. That's not to mean it is obsolete -- but it is not the "new" one, either.

There are also people who bought the iPhone 5S 1 week before the iPhone 6 announcement -- and such is life.

My Porsche 997 Turbo doesn't have bluetooth, and cannot have it retrofit -- the 997.1 Turbo does. "Just missed it by a few months" etc, but that's life.

I ordered a P85D, and I'm sure that next year, there will be new features, too. If you want to minimize your risk to this, always wait for the next big announcement, and order then.
 
#27
Obsolete is a little strong. If the P85D was the same price as the discontinued P85 (in line with the iPhone example someone else mentioned) then I would be more inclined to agree with you. That not being the case what we really have is a collectors item which caters to the people who want high performance for $10-$15k less than what's currently offered. I think there's a nice little niche pocket where the P85 sits right now that would make it attractive to potential buyers who are are stretching their budget just to buy a Tesla and those that perhaps don't want to wait on the production schedule but want near the same performance.
 
#29
And to continue the iPhone analogy, the iPhone 6 no longer offers the smaller screen. I suspect the 5S will continue to sell well to those who want the best features but the smaller size. Likewise the P85/P85+ will continue to sell well (used) to those who want RWD.
 
#30
KOL2000 said:
One possibility that I have been thinking about is that the RWD P85 series motor was being mechanically taken to the limit and that is why drivetrains have had to be replaced for milling sounds and what not. With the non-P 85 this is not an issue and with all dual motor cars the mechanical demands on any one motor are less (both for regen and accel) so we are unlikely to see lots of motor replacements in the future.

Is this a silly rationale or does anyone here think this might make a little sense?
Click to expand...

This is not true at all. The drive train issue was addressed during the previous earnings call last quarter.

- - - Updated - - -

tomas said:
Including sales tax differential, my p85 was almost 30k less than the new D configured similarly. Yes awd and sensors great, but I think early P should have active resale market. I could sell at 66% of my net purchase price and buyer would pay about 50% of new D price.

I'm renaming 85V. For value.
Click to expand...

66% seems very low... The cheapest used P85 at cars.com is priced at $75k and goes up from there. Many are priced over $95,000.
 
#32
ecarfan said:
The P85 is certainly not "obsolete". That is an absurd statement. It remains an awesome vehicle and will be desirable for years to come. The P85D is far more costly than the P85 and there will certainly be a good market for used P85 cars. Look at the P85 from the perspective of someone who has never owned a Tesla, which is almost everyone: it is an amazing car just as it is!

It is important to accept the fact that Tesla is a technologically driven company that is innovating rapidly. Every few years they are going to introduce major improvements to their products, which are constantly being incrementally improved. Get used to it because that is the reality...
Click to expand...

Agreed!

The P85 is as obsolete as any Model S that was purchased before the autopilot announcement. P85, along with all S60 and S85s, will continue to receive software updates and retrofits. In fact, the new sun visors will be available as a retrofit item for previous owners. It's discontinued, yes, but obsolete? Hardly.

It's pretty clear to me that a larger battery is coming next year, somewhere between 100 and 110 kWh. I'd hate to be spending $120k+ today on a P85D only to see a P105D next year at the same price point. Taking Elon's statements that we are going to see a larger capacity battery next year, I think the writing is on the wall. We will probably see a S105D with similar 0-60 times of the now discontinued P85, so that hole will get filled. Then we will be having this conversation all over again about how P85D owners are obsolete and screwed.

Such is life.
 
#33
I'll still be content with my P85D. 85kWh and the super chargers gets me where I want to go. Already drove cross country using the SCs. I would rarely use the extra capacity of 105kWh. Will the 105kWh pack charge faster? Probably, but again, in the real world how much time will it shave off to 85kWh? Even if it's 15 minutes I'll take the trade off to own the P85D today. During the cross country trip I rather enjoyed the 30-40 minute breaks.

A P85D that uses fewer of the newer cells, reduces weight, and is therefore more efficient is the strongest argument to me.
 
#35
Yeah, provide source, please. He said no such thing during yesterday's conf call.

On the subject of P85 being obsolete, it's sad. I would've liked to have bought one but settled for the S85.

Just think, in a year, or two, or so, the P85D will be obsolete too. Prolly replaced by a P100D or higher.

And I also suspect that some day in the not too distant future they'll get rid of the "D" designation too, as they'll go to all AWD for all orders so the "D" becomes default and therefore no need to mention it.
 
#37
Krugerrand said:
Yeah, I didn't hear that either. In fact, I thought I heard recently that there would NOT be any 'major' changes coming for the next little bit, just the standard software upgrades.
Click to expand...

The direct quote is >>
"so no major platform changes in the hardware are planned in the near term. There will, however, be several significant over-the-air software releases - at no cost to owners - that provide added functionality to the Model S fleet"

Second Paragraph of the 3rd Quarter 2014 Shareholder Letter

I suspect the definition of near term is up for grabs.... Probably some time in the 2nd half of 2015 just about when the X begins delivery.
 
#39
AmpedRealtor said:
It's pretty clear to me that a larger battery is coming next year, somewhere between 100 and 110 kWh. I'd hate to be spending $120k+ today on a P85D only to see a P105D next year at the same price point. Taking Elon's statements that we are going to see a larger capacity battery next year, I think the writing is on the wall. We will probably see a S105D with similar 0-60 times of the now discontinued P85, so that hole will get filled. Then we will be having this conversation all over again about how P85D owners are obsolete and screwed.
Click to expand...

Having been around for the 959 and F40 wars, more than two decades ago, one thing is different here. The P85D went from 3.9, to 3.1, which could probably be 3.0, or 2.9, with DOT legal compounds. That marginal increase in speed blew away the improvements other auto co's would probably offer in an existing model.

For P85D owners, who won't just be keeping up with the fastest sedans, but abjectly cutting their legs off, Musk can change their colors, make blue the new red, etc., but I doubt another 8 TENTHS are lurking somewhere.
 
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