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Teslarati : "California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD"

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Tesla’s self driving technology is currently best considered a nice copilot. It will do most things for you fine but occasionally needs a nudge or an assist from the driver - generally in certain predictable circumstances.

It’s miles ahead of anything else I have seen in a consumer vehicle available in my part of the USA, and that’s something for Tesla to be proud of. I enjoy it and use it every day.

People complaining about FSD constantly would spend an entire trip to space complaining about the cushioning on the armrests.
 
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IMO, any marketing benefit Tesla has garnered by using “full self driving” moniker has been swamped by the negative reaction people have to the system not actually being fully autonomous. Just like laws that clearly accomplish the opposite of what they are named. Nobody buys “FSD” thinking it is driver independent. This California law is not about protecting anyone, it is just sanctimonious busybody signaling.

Tesla would be much letter off naming it something thematic but non-descriptive like “Ampere System” and then just letting the capability of the system speak for itself.
You realize if they did that from the start, that would’ve been the doom of “FSD”? The gimmicks, naming, and empty promises are what got everyone on board, or at least a lot of people. Imagine they called it Ampere System and then it sucked for years? It would be as popular as comma.ai
 
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Specifically, which posts of mine in this thread do you believe are speculative? (I concede post #32 was clearly speculation on my part.)
#31, #35, #36 ...

I believe this is the 2nd time since I've joined the forum that you've made a similar reference about my posting speculation as facts. Surely, you must recognize the hypocrisy in you raising that as an issue. (And yes, I am speculating that you do in fact recognize your hypocrisy on this issue.)
I do point out when people post speculation as fact. I do it for a lot of people .... don't particularly remember you.

I typically enjoy reading your posts and I find much of what you say extremely informative and helpful, but these posts are silly and petty - especially given that you do the same thing as well. (Case in point, in post #3, you state "Tesla, I'm sure, wishes it had not used the name." Do you really know that for sure or are you just speculating?)
By saying "I'm sure" - I'm clearly indicating it is my best guess - and not an established fact. The reason "I'm sure" is that, in hindsight even Tesla would recognize that the term FSD puts them in legal jeopardy.

I try my best to distinguish between my guesses and established facts. Its just my training as an engineer/scientist.

The legal standards may be different ... I don't know.
 
Tesla doesn’t have marketing dept is technically true in the traditional sense, but since when is Tesla traditional?
The fact the most of the non-Tesla owners have the impression that a Tesla can drive itself are entirely caused by the use of weasel words like disclaimers. If it needs “capable” or disclaimers then the words are false. That’s called marketing.
When CSO (Chief Shill Officer) goes on Twitter making ridiculous claims that Tesla will soon drive cross country unaided, that’s just modern marketing.
All those shill videos with folks driving with hands on their laps doing “no disconnect drives”.
General public believes that stuff.
New owners join these forums expecting a self driving car. We had one guy a month or back who thought “paying attention” meant he could look out the side window for 30 seconds or more. That was his expectation, albeit unrealistic.

Pretending that using “capability” is enough doesn’t apply when we all know that FSD in its current form will never Self Drive or be a Robotaxi.
Ask all the folks who have MCU2 cars with “FSD”
Just to expand on that the public believes the nonsense. You know how often people tell me about the “Tesla Phone” that Elon announced? Thanks YouTube….
 
Tesla’s self driving technology is currently best considered a nice copilot. It will do most things for you fine but occasionally needs a nudge or an assist from the driver - generally in certain predictable circumstances.

It’s miles ahead of anything else I have seen in a consumer vehicle available in my part of the USA, and that’s something for Tesla to be proud of. I enjoy it and use it every day.

People complaining about FSD constantly would spend an entire trip to space complaining about the cushioning on the armrests.
Imagine the captain would have to micromanage his first officer as much as we have to micromanage FSDb? That’s an insult to the word “co-pilot” and all the FOs out there 😅😅
 
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#31, #35, #36 ...


I do point out when people post speculation as fact. I do it for a lot of people .... don't particularly remember you.


By saying "I'm sure" - I'm clearly indicating it is my best guess - and not an established fact. The reason "I'm sure" is that, in hindsight even Tesla would recognize that the term FSD puts them in legal jeopardy.

I try my best to distinguish between my guesses and established facts. Its just my training as an engineer/scientist.

The legal standards may be different ... I don't know.
I understand where you are coming from and I appreciate your response. This is a melting pot of a board with people from different countries, backgrounds, etc. So, you are probably right that we should all try and be mindful of how what we are saying may be interpreted by others.

With that said, I do think there is some hairsplitting in terms of what is and isn't speculation. This is a message board and people regularly state (and conflate) facts, opinions, etc. How one construes such statements really depends on background, culture, training, education, experience, etc. And, the inability to see someone's face or hear a person's tone further blurs the lines. Anyway... not to get into the weeds on this....

I don't know how to use the fancy multi-quote feature, so excuse the following attempt to clarify whether the posts you referenced are rooted in speculation or fact.
  • Post #31: I am speculating that we are all "super nerds" and about what the average person thinks the term "autopilot" means. In both instances, I believe my speculation is obvious - because I don't think anyone reasonably believes that I have done or seen any kind of a formal study on the personalities of those who post here or what the average person may think about a term.
  • Post #35, in which I state that it (the legislation) does make a difference because even the finished FSD product isn't really FSD is based on my legal training and information I've gathered from this board. It is my understanding (from this board) that FSD is really level 2 as opposed to truly self driving. Based on that, coupled with the poster I was responding to noting that FSD is close to being a fully finished product (which I assume is based on comments that Elon has said), the legislation (in my opinion) is very relevant. It goes directly to the heart of what the legislation is trying to limit - the promotion of a level 2 system as full self driving.
  • #36, in which I state that the law is meant to crack down on the use of the terms FSD and autopilot, and that both of those terms are unlawful under the new statute, I am expressing an opinion that is based on my reading of the statute (and the legislative history of the statute) as an attorney; and, articles I've read about issues Tesla has had with California DMV, etc. about its use of those terms.
As a related aside, I do find it comically ironic that we are talking about speculation when the initial article about the legislation is purely speculative, sensationalist, etc. From reading the article, you would think that the legislature/bill calls out Tesla by name! ROFL! 😁😁😁😁
 
WARNING: This post can expose you to being snipped, which is known to the TMC to cause further ridicule.

Also, if your post is right on the edge of getting snipped, so I’m having to think about it, and you haven’t capitalized it, punctuated it or corrected your grammar - you’re probably getting snipped as well.

Happy Holidays - Moderator Grinch
 
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I understand where you are coming from and I appreciate your response. This is a melting pot of a board with people from different countries, backgrounds, etc. So, you are probably right that we should all try and be mindful of how what we are saying may be interpreted by others.

With that said, I do think there is some hairsplitting in terms of what is and isn't speculation.
I'm going to let it all pass .... no point continuing this "fight".
 
I'm not sure if it was mentioned up thread, but this law was introduced directly in reaction to the DMV unable to actually do anything about the Tesla FSD naming back in August:
"While the California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) already had rules banning the false advertisement of self-driving cars, Senator Gonzales told the Los Angeles Times in August that the DMV's lack of enforcement prompted her and state legislators to advance the bill to enshrine the rules into state law."
California Bans Tesla From Marketing Its EVs As "Full Self-Driving"

California DMV accuses Tesla of deceptive practices in marketing Autopilot and Full Self-Driving options
Tesla is in hot water with California DMV over its Autopilot and self-driving claims
Tesla reluctantly gave Full Self-Driving Beta demo to DMV and critics

DMV had consultants that have criticized Tesla's naming of the system and insisted that Tesla must report FSD Beta data as if it was a L4 car. Back in August, a big deal was made of it, but Tesla didn't violate any existing laws nor is it a true safety issue, so nothing came of it. The reason is that as soon as you use the system, it makes it plenty clear it requires driver attention. When you order the actual car, website also already has plenty of disclaimers that the system requires driver attention. That people with no experience with the system and have not placed an order may think it drives itself is irrelevant to this.

With that context, given this law was written pretty much directly to ban Tesla's FSD naming, I don't think the courts would decide favorably against Tesla if this was taken to court. It would be interesting to see what naming Tesla will use as a replacement. Given Elon's recent antics, I agree with the guess that it probably will be a name like "not FSD," as a middle finger to the regulators.
 
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Two peas in a pod when it comes to overbearing regulation.

At the end of the day though it’s all a grift, and money talks.
Thats just your ideology .... not fact.

Without regulations we'd still all be dying because of lead pipes and asbestos.

ps : Its funny how people loved CA when it supported EVs with regulations when noone else would, but now that Tesla has established itself, Elon just kicked the ladder he used to climb up.
 
Love the state, don’t love the red tape.
I'm yet to see a single person say they love the "red tape" !

The challenge is always to have laws that protect the people while not letting companies use loopholes to exploit the people for a quick buck.

BTW, having worked in several fortune 500 companies, I can confidently say large private companies have as much "red tape" as governments. My most hilarious experience is when a group of ~ 10 "stake holders" debated in several meetings taking up over 100 hours to decide between two solution options that differed by less than 100 hours in effort ;)
 
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Two peas in a pod when it comes to overbearing regulation.

At the end of the day though it’s all a grift, and money talks.
There are some regulations that I'd consider overbearing but requiring that a product actually does what the name advertises isn't overbearing regulation, it's common sense.
Thats just your ideology .... not fact.

Without regulations we'd still all be dying because of lead pipes and asbestos.
You wouldn't have time for that stuff to kill you because you'd have been electrocuted by bare wires hanging out of the walls or killed by a fire started because of a short that wasn't protected by a circuit breaker.
ps : Its funny how people loved CA when it supported EVs with regulations when noone else would, but now that Tesla has established itself, Elon just kicked the ladder he used to climb up.
Hopefully, said ladder takes out the support that hold up Elon's job as CEO of Tesla, maybe Elon will learn a lesson from this incident just as Steve Jobs did when he was booted from Apple.
 
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