Supercharging to reduce ownership cost of a Model S.

[scaesare]

Keep in mind I am not recommending this to everyone. I am merely saying it might work out for some who is looking to save a few bucks by giving up some convenience of charging at home.

I find the disclaimer of: "I don't recommend everybody else do what I'm planning to do because I want to save a few bucks" rather disingenuous.

The saying "Do as I say, not do as I do" seems to illustrate the rather hypocritical nature of that.

Not intended to be snippy, but in the opening post you did ask for opinions. :frown:

 

[RyanT]

Ok so as other have stated, maybe the 14-50 might be the best route. It will still be $1K at least, given the mods I need to do to the panels and probably the wiring cost for the 50A. My commute is more than 40 miles a day round trip so I can't get by using the 120V. Moreover, others have said you will spend more money if you use the 120V to charge because of more wasted heat energy.

Keep in mind I am not recommending this to everyone. I am merely saying it might work out for some who is looking to save a few bucks by giving up some convenience of charging at home. Obviously not everyone here are willing to do that. Point taken. But this is just a suggestion.

I would get a quote for 14-50. I grossly overestimated my cost for the install. I did not have any room in the panel, thought I had low amp service etc. They combined a few existing 15a breakers and said the service was fine. Total cost $350. Well worth it!

You'd have the option to supercharge when you want to save a few $ or just charge at home if you don't have time. Best of both worlds.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

Yup, I did ask for opinion and in fact did not recommended it as such. But someone how people are interpreting it as a recommendation, hence why I needed to clarify this is a mere suggestion. If you want to get philosophical then think of it as this analogy: There are many ways to the destination, you just need to pick and choose the one best for you.

 

[mknox]

I know of one person who is considering a Model S now for the sole reason that a Supercharger opened near their home. The reason? They live in a high rise condo and the condo board will not allow them to install charging infrastructure in the basement parking. This is a big problem for condo owners in areas without by-laws requiring them to allow charging.

 

[Cyclone]

I am currently charging on 120v at home and hitting my local Supercharger on the weekend while I do grocery shopping (the SpC is in the parking lot of the grocery store). This is keeping me going until I get my 14-50 installed. Even on 120v, I love waking up having topped off my "tank" to some degree. Hopefully the lack of a 240v outlet won't prevent others from getting a Tesla!

 

[MikeC]

Coming from an ICE, 15-30 minutes every other day might not sound like much of an inconvenience. Once you get your Model S, it suddenly will be.

You're obviously not the first person to think about capitalizing on free electricity, but the reason most don't do it is that the economics just don't make sense if you consider the opportunity cost of your time. Unless you make less than minimum wage, you'd come out ahead by just working an extra hour each week.

 

[travwill]

I want to get people's opinion to this idea.

Here is why I am considering this. Recently they have placed a supercharging station on my way to work from where I live. I was thinking I can save a lot of money by not doing the following and use the supercharging ALL the time.

1) Save money on extra charge cable (i.e. I can leave the mobile charger permanently in my car without getting an extra one) (~$650 mobile charger bundle)
2) Save money on doing electrical upgrade for the HPWC/14-50 (~$1K-$3K)
3) Save money on HPWC ($750)
4) Save money on electricity ($0.22 per KWH for lowest tier usage here in SoCal. More if I use more)
5) Probably no need to pay for Dual Charger install because I will probably do 100% supercharging! (~$2K)

As you can see you can save quite a bit of money. Sure I spend a bit of time at the supercharging station in the morning every other day, ~15-30minutes, to charge enough to get me enough charge for 2 days trip. I am fully aware of the ethics of doing this, but I figured if supercharging is already factored into the price of the Model S, why not use it? You already paid for it. Moreover, from other threads, it does not seem to damage or degrade the battery any more than other charging method, provided I don't take the SOC greater than 80% and not use it quickly.

You should be able to get an outlet for around $400 even if panel is close or in your garage. Stop there if you really want to save but at least you will have somewhere to charge, which is a big benefit of the car. Having a "full tank" of charge at your home each day and fending off vampire drain as well. Or its good to have in case you need it at least - say you need to go somewhere and your low, sick for a few days and don't charge, or flat out don't feel like routing through a supercharger before you go sometimes. How much is your time worth?

1. You don't need the HPWC.
2. Dual chargers aren't really needed anyway in most cases. 99% use the 14-50 and are fine.
3. You could try your plan and just use one UMC and keep in car, but at least you would have option with the outlet. Worst case can order another one later.

-T

 

[Candleflame]

the superchargers are clearly not just ment for roadtrip travel as evident by the fact that the whole of london is plastered with them while the rest of the UK is...... lacking.

 

[markb1]

the superchargers are clearly not just ment for roadtrip travel as evident by the fact that the whole of london is plastered with them while the rest of the UK is...... lacking.

I agree. I think Tesla realized they were missing out on some sales because not everyone can charge at home, and thus they've started to install superchargers in cities, even here in the US. That said, I probably wouldn't have bought my Tesla if I couldn't charge at home, even if the supercharger that's being installed where I work had been operational then. It would still be too inconvenient.

 

[fluxemag]

I don't have a horse in this race because I do not have active SC hardware on my car. But if you do, you paid several thousands dollars for it. Go ahead and use it how you see fit. But man, what an unbearable waste of time to commit to on a day to day basis when a few hundred bucks solves the problem.

 

[mspohr]

Stopping add a supercharger everyday is the equivalent of a minimum wage job. I think you would be better off getting a job at McDonalds.

 

[brucet999]

I want to get people's opinion to this idea.

Here is why I am considering this. Recently they have placed a supercharging station on my way to work from where I live. I was thinking I can save a lot of money by not doing the following and use the supercharging ALL the time.

1) Save money on extra charge cable (i.e. I can leave the mobile charger permanently in my car without getting an extra one) (~$650 mobile charger bundle)
2) Save money on doing electrical upgrade for the HPWC/14-50 (~$1K-$3K)
3) Save money on HPWC ($750)
4) Save money on electricity ($0.22 per KWH for lowest tier usage here in SoCal. More if I use more)
5) Probably no need to pay for Dual Charger install because I will probably do 100% supercharging! (~$2K)

Item 4 may not apply either. SoCal Edison offers an EV off-peak rate of 11.75 cents per kWh with a separate meter. I'm not sure whether SDG&E does as well.

There is also a pilot program including PG&E, SCE, and SDG&E for a separate third-party plug-in metering box with capacity up to 15 kW. I couldn't determine the rates, but it allows tiered rate customers to get TOU EV rates by plugging in a third party-supplied meter into a NEMA 14-50 outlet. I would guess that the rate would be around 12 to 15 cents per kWh.
EV Driver Pilot Program: Separately meter your car’s electricity | San Diego Gas Electric

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

Hahah good point. Assuming there was a McDonalds on my way to work, I doubt McDonalds will hire me just for 15-30 minutes every other day even if I wanted to work for them to cover my electricity cost. By the time I get in to work, it will be time to leave.

 

[liuping]

Item 4 may not apply either. SoCal Edison offers an EV off-peak rate of 11.75 cents per kWh with a separate meter. I'm not sure whether SDG&E does as well.

There is also a pilot program including PG&E, SCE, and SDG&E for a separate third-party plug-in metering box with capacity up to 15 kW. I couldn't determine the rates, but it allows tiered rate customers to get TOU EV rates by plugging in a third party-supplied meter into a NEMA 14-50 outlet. I would guess that the rate would be around 12 to 15 cents per kWh.
EV Driver Pilot Program: Separately meter your car’s electricity | San Diego Gas Electric

The lowest TOU2-EV rate is $.172 for SDG&E from midnight to 5am (https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/...dule EV-TOU & EV-TOU-2 Total Rates Tables.pdf). It's not a tiered rate, so it $.172 per kWh for as much as you need during that period.

When the pilot program gets started, you will be able to use TOU2-EV rates on the EV submeter while keeping whatever rate you already have for the rest of the house.

 

[NOLA_Mike]

I don't have any problem with "ethics of doing this" - Tesla has stated supercharging is free for life (assuming you have paid to enable it - maybe they should call it prepaid for lifetime use) and you are free to use it as you need it.

My comment is that you will get tired of doing this. You think now "...it's just 15 - 30 mins. every other day and that's not bad..." but you will get tired of spending 30 mins at the charger when you know in the back of your mind that you could have a charging solution at home at some nominal cost where in you don't have to spend any of your time charging.

That's my opinion.

Mike

 

[Todd Burch]

1, 3, and 5 are not necessary (especially in So Cal). I've gone 50,000 Model S miles in Virginia (not exactly charger heaven) and never needed the HPWC, dual chargers, or a second UMC. All that and I have an almost 100 mile daily commute.

The remaining costs (about $1500) are pretty small overall. You'd be putting yourself through a completely unnecessary additional pain in the butt just to save $1500 on a $100k car.

All this aside from the ethics.

Just don't do it. You'll regret it if you try to pinch a few pennies in this way.

 

[Cyclone]

The remaining costs (about $1500) are pretty small overall. You'd be putting yourself through a completely unnecessary additional pain in the butt just to save $1500 on a $100k car.

Which quickly would get "saved" by the gas savings on a typical commute anyways.

 

[yobigd20]

I barely charge at home. Maybe 5%. The rest is on free juice from where I park for work or on superchargers. 70k miles and sitting pretty. Between that and reduced toll rates I've probably saved almost $16-17k by now.

 

[yobigd20]

Let's be generous and put this aside.

I haven't counted recently but let's be generous and say there are 1000 supercharger stalls in CA. I'm pretty sure there are at least 10,000 Model S vehicles registered in CA. Imagine all of them made the same decision you're considering.

Overnight the intended purpose of supercharging would be effectively nullified. Do you want to be part of that?

Theoretically it's free since tesla plans on offsetting the costs via massive solar. So what difference does it make? Free juice is free juice and we paid for its usage "free for life".

 

[cpa]

Let's look at a five-year summary: 2 1/2 hours of charging per week that includes the detour to and from the Supercharger. One hundred kilowatt-hours received each week. Assume fifty weeks per year.

625 hours spent charging 25,000 kWh on Tesla's nickel. Or, 1 hour total spent plugging and unplugging your car each night at home. Installation cost of $1,000 plus electricity purchased (25,000 kWh @ $.22) = $5,500 for a total outlay of $6,500. That equates to an hourly rate of $10.40, less if you can opt for the nighttime TOU rate.

Time is the one thing in our lives that escapes and can never be reclaimed. If you have a family, close friends, or hobbies and interests that you pursue, I think that you are short-changing them all for ten bucks an hour!

Occasional use to augment home charging is great. Occasional use to have a full battery for a weekend getaway is great.