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Supercharger Etiquette

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Here's an important addition...

If there are only one or two stalls in use when you pull in, use a stall that does not share the same number prefix as the other vehicles. Superchargers stalls are powered in pairs. If you charge in a stall that shares the same number prefix as a stall already in use (such as 1a & 1b), the charge level to both vehicles will be reduced.
 
Not to steer this thread way off topic but if I'm reading your post correctly it sounds like you frequently use your local supercharger. Correct?

I ask because I have heard that it's best to charge at home most of the time and only use supercharges on trips. Something to do with the way superchargers work they can damage the battery if used too much. Is that true?

Also that superchargers ignore whatever charging level you've set on the console and will continue to charge until the battery is at 100% which is also not a good thing to do very often. Is that true?

It would be nice if it is ok to supercharge frequently as there is a supercharger located near my house at the restaurant I visit a few times a week.

Thoughts?

I have so much to learn.

So, speaking of etiquette, there are mixed sentiments regarding using your local supercharger all the time versus at home. On the technical side, the tapering and conditioning mechanisms in the supercharger technology "prepare" the battery to receive the high levels of DC. The long term effects of dumping that level of DC into the batteries all the time has yet to be determined. It appears to be the general consensus on the forum that constantly charging to 100% is far more detrimental to the life of the battery then the high voltage/amperage being injected into the battery. I've always subscribed to the "low and slow" way of charging, however, with lithium ion that may no longer be an issue.

There have been a great many heated debates in the forum regarding using the superchargers all the time in lieu of installing one at home. That is for you to draw your own conclusion. However, to add to your etiquette list I have few beliefs myself:
1) You should definitely patronize your local businesses that have taken the time to install a charging device (J1772, HPWC, CHAdeMO, etc.). In the cases of a generic connector, you should remember that you're not the only electric car out there. You ARE however the only electric car that gets in excess of 200+ miles of range per charge. I, for one, will purposely go to locations with chargers as the business owners have taken the time and money to install it purposely to attract me to their establishment. Long and short, don't hog it if you don't have to. It may be a matter of the Leaf or Smart owner getting home or not.

2) You have to remember that you can't just go to the fueling station down the street to fill up. You SHOULD use a local supercharger if you are driving quite a bit for that day. With the A/C or heat on and driving errands you can use quite a bit of power. I drove a medium length trip one day and came home to use the local superchargers as I had more errands to run and didn't want to run out. Personally, if it's a busy supercharger (not so much here in MA), you should allow the long distance traveler to charge first. Just a personal belief. Remember, you live there, they don't and may have an appointment they need to make.

3) It is completely okay to plug someone else in. I would say that's the reason for the charge port working without the key. Someone could plug in your car for you after they complete their charge.

Lastly, I've seen people go into a broil over using local chargers all the time. Some say "I've paid for it". Some say "it's for long trips only". I, for one, have met someone that doesn't even have a charging facility at home. They use the local supercharger all the time as they only live 4 miles away from the mall that's equipped with superchargers. I'll leave that up to your own personal belief.

Something else we should note is that many of the Tesla Galleries have HPWC (many are 80A) and 50A connections that you can use throughout your travels. This is COMPLETELY okay as long as you let them know. I have heard that Tesla Service Centers will also help you in a pinch although I've never had the need. FWIW

A funny side note, before the superchargers were installed in Auburn and West Springfield, I've actually driven to the gallery in Natick to pick up something (it's 80 miles away). Between charging at the mall and charging at home, it was cheaper to pay the tolls and electricity then pay the shipping from CA.

Finally, it's our separate beliefs that make the world go around each day. I applaud your "etiquette" post. It was your belief that brought you to buying the worlds finest electric car. Others may think your crazy. I admit it, I drank the Kool-Aid and I liked it.

Regarding your question above about the supercharger ignoring your settings. It does ignore the maximum power setting. It does not ignore the level of charge. If you set it for 90%, it will stop at 90%. If you set it for 48A, it will ignore it. It is kind of scary when you look at the display and it says it's dumping 290A into the battery.
 
So, speaking of etiquette, there are mixed sentiments regarding using your local supercharger all the time versus at home. On the technical side, the tapering and conditioning mechanisms in the supercharger technology "prepare" the battery to receive the high levels of DC. The long term effects of dumping that level of DC into the batteries all the time has yet to be determined. It appears to be the general consensus on the forum that constantly charging to 100% is far more detrimental to the life of the battery then the high voltage/amperage being injected into the battery. I've always subscribed to the "low and slow" way of charging, however, with lithium ion that may no longer be an issue.

Just to clarify, charging to 100% is not detrimental in and of itself. What is highly detrimental is charging to 100% and leaving the battery sit fully charged. That generates internal heat and will have detrimental effects on battery lifetime. But if you charge to 100% and start driving shortly afterwards, it should have no long term affect on the battery. The consensus is that "shortly" is a couple hours or less. The less the better. For instance, never let the battery sit at 100% overnight I'm preparation for a trip the next day. Try to time the charging to be complete right before you leave.
 
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Although this order shows maximum courtesy, the pairing thing needs to be taken into account as well.

Here's an important addition...

If there are only one or two stalls in use when you pull in, use a stall that does not share the same number prefix as the other vehicles. Superchargers stalls are powered in pairs. If you charge in a stall that shares the same number prefix as a stall already in use (such as 1a & 1b), the charge level to both vehicles will be reduced.

Yup. I was leaving out the station pairing because it'd already been covered in the thread. Unfortunately some of the older superchargers also have the number/letter on the side of the pedestal and you have to get out in order to see them.
 
An important thing to always keep in mind is that superchargers are for charging, not for leaving your car on charge while you go do something (eat, shop, whatever). As such, if I step away from my car (to go eat, shop, whatever) I am constantly monitoring the SOC of my car via the app so I know when to return.

Put another way, know your charging bogey and leave when you hit it. That's the way to achieve shortest trip time anyway.
 
Just to clarify, charging to 100% is not detrimental in and of itself. What is highly detrimental is charging to 100% and leaving the battery sit fully charged. That generates internal heat and will have detrimental effects on battery lifetime. But if you charge to 100% and start driving shortly afterwards, it should have no long term affect on the battery. The consensus is that "shortly" is a couple hours or less. The less the better. For instance, never let the battery sit at 100% overnight I'm preparation for a trip the next day. Try to time the charging to be complete right before you leave.

I think you have this a little wrong. Electrolyte precipitating out of solution onto the negative electrode is what kills Lion batteries. This effect occurs mostly at high temperatures and at high voltages, both of which occur as charging reaches 100%, so damage does occur whenever you charge to 100%. You are correct, however, that longer time at full charge exacerbates the problem, simply because more time at highest voltage (i.e. full charge) and temperature allows the precipitation reaction to proceed longer.

Avoiding highest voltage is why Tesla recommends charging no higher than 90% most of the time. Reducing temperature is one reason (besides balancing cells) why Tesla's charging systems (both super chargers and on-board charger) taper off as SOC nears full. Because high rate charging creates heat in the cells, super charging does cause damage, but the chargers manage charge rate in order to minimize the effects so that super charging on trips is acceptable. Service Center technicians will tell you though, that super charging all the time will shorten battery life.

See this video on the subject from Dalhousie University. It is rather long, but well worth it. Professor Dahn also talks about the various chemistries used in auto batteries, noting that the Nissan chemistry is the poorest choice for durability, Volt is better, but Tesla's is the most resistant to failure and tolerates fast charging best, at least among those in production. There is a new chemistry being tested that promises to be much better than all others so far.

Why do Li-ion Batteries die ? and how to improve the situation? - YouTube
 
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There is this rumour going around that if you constantly use a supercharger at a location which is close to your "home" location or the location the car spends a lot of time standing, Tesla throttles the charge range down to 50kwh. Personally, I think that is BS but you never know...

That is totally a rumour, it's completely wrong. Supercharger charges at the same speed no matter where your home location is. But... if we keep spreading the rumour, it will stay alive!!! Good job Candleflame.
 
Not to steer this thread way off topic but if I'm reading your post correctly it sounds like you frequently use your local supercharger. Correct?

I ask because I have heard that it's best to charge at home most of the time and only use supercharges on trips. Something to do with the way superchargers work they can damage the battery if used too much. Is that true?

Also that superchargers ignore whatever charging level you've set on the console and will continue to charge until the battery is at 100% which is also not a good thing to do very often. Is that true?

It would be nice if it is ok to supercharge frequently as there is a supercharger located near my house at the restaurant I visit a few times a week.

Thoughts?

I have so much to learn.

tesla has consistently said that using superchargers doesn't impact your battery life at all. I believe that. At the individual cell level the cell is taking an hour to charge from being empty to full. that's very consistent with other lithium cells charge rates

my supercharger is near my sons school so I use it if I'm not in a hurry. I charge at home a lot too. I'm working on getting SolarCity too.
 
tesla has consistently said that using superchargers doesn't impact your battery life at all. I believe that. At the individual cell level the cell is taking an hour to charge from being empty to full. that's very consistent with other lithium cells charge rates

my supercharger is near my sons school so I use it if I'm not in a hurry. I charge at home a lot too. I'm working on getting SolarCity too.

Technically, they've said it doesn't have a material effect/impact on your battery life. They have not said that it doesn't impact the life of it.
 
2. If you leave the car while it's charging leave a note with your cell number.
You'll get mixed opinions on this one.

I generally follow one of two strategies when leaving the car at a supercharger:
(1) plan to be there before it completes (by a few minutes), and hang out while it finishes; watch status on phone
(2) leave contact information on paper (or cheap device) near the charger

Sometimes I do both. Mostly I do the former though.

Often I take a nap at the charger (in the car) and set an alarm to wake up on my phone.

-----

Recent firmware will give you an ETA for charging completion. Older firmware does not, but some of the phone apps give you an estimate (and it is close enough to be useful).
 
Dare I say that I'm now more confused than ever. :)

Bottom line is that Tesla tells you the impact is such that you shouldn't worry about it. When they first announced it, there were a few hints that they might restrict the number of supercharges that could be performed in a certain time period, etc.

We do know that extremely fast charging does indeed affect battery life, but the degree to which it impacts life is minimal. You just can't say it has no effect on battery life in absolute terms.
 
(2) leave contact information on paper (or cheap device) near the charger

When I picked up my car from the DC, they let me keep the plastic "ZERO EMISSION" license plate.

I printed out in a big enough font Contact Info: xxx-yyy-zzzz (my cell phone number) and attached it to the bottom area of the plate.

I keep it in my glove box, and whenever I leave the SC plugged in, I toss the card onto the dashboard so anyone can see it.

Yeah, it's got my cell phone number, but I'm not paranoid about it. I'd rather leave contact info that anyone can use (without a cutesy QR code app) if there's any reason they need to contact me about my car.
 
And, if youre going to charge more than you need to get to your next destination (which is usually a waste of your time anyway), be at your car so you can move it if someone else shows up and the rest of the stalls are full.
If "usually" your destination is another supercharger or somewhere you plan to stay overnight, then yes. Otherwise, incorrect.

More generally speaking, if you're on a trip that involves multiple superchargers the last leg is a good place to "top off with the good stuff" since every destination outside of supercharger country will be painful by comparison.
 
tesla has consistently said that using superchargers doesn't impact your battery life at all. I believe that. At the individual cell level the cell is taking an hour to charge from being empty to full. that's very consistent with other lithium cells charge rates.

Technically, they've said it doesn't have a material effect/impact on your battery life. They have not said that it doesn't impact the life of it.

As has already been discussed it is charging to 100% that generally has the most harmful effect on battery life. Based on my email conversations with engineering I am of the belief that using Superchargers at relatively low states of charge is no more harmful than charging at home.

The issue is not Supercharging, but rather to what state of charge are you going. When in the taper Superchargers are essentially charging at HPWC rates. While nearing a SoC of 100% both are probably doing about the same amount of "damage" to the battery.

Larry
 
Technically, they've said it doesn't have a material effect/impact on your battery life. They have not said that it doesn't impact the life of it.

Not really true, they actually have not made any statement at all. Here is the quote from their website:

How often can I Supercharge? Is it bad for my battery?
Supercharging does not alter the new vehicle warranty. Customers are free to use the network as much as they like.

They don't make a statement about battery aging or anything. They say to use it as much as you like which includes the case of charging there all the time.

There are two other pieces of information that are relevant here. Elon himself mentioned at a public meeting that Supercharging speed is actually very conservative. They said they made it that way because they want to be on the safe side in terms of battery life. So Supercharing isn't at all stressful for the battery. Anyone that is familiar with Lithium batteries will agree that the charge speed, tapering and at the same time cooling the battery is very much on the conservative side.

The other interesting information relevant is that Tesla does make a statement about what is bad for the battery life. It is charging to 100%. In other words, they are not holding back on pointing out a situation that is not good for the battery when used on a daily basis. If Supercharging was, they would sure mention it as well, but they specifically say, it OK to use as much as we want.
 
The statements I'm referring to were not published questions by Tesla but rather those handled in Q&A by JB or Elon or another Tesla leader.

Definitely agree with the concern of charging to what Tesla considers 100%.

I do recall - during a late 2012 or early 2013 Q&A - one of the executives being asked the question. He responded that it is likely that quick charging does have impact on the battery life, but that their studies show customers don't need to worry about it. This was asked in the context of Tesla increasing the charge rate at superchargers over time (to even 10 minutes).