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Stop the Press! Tesla announces REAL HP numbers for P85D and P90L

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I'm sorry but I believe this thread deserves an as-good-as-possible translation of the entire statement. Please keep in mind the fact that Pedersen, who is Norwegian, probably said this in Norwegian and was then quoted in Danish in a Danish paper (translated by the journalist) and keep in mind that I'm a Swede living in Norway for 10 years :)

This, according to me, is what the communications manager said:

"The rules have been in a gray area. And it's not hard for me to understand that to people we may seem to have been a bit too ingenious [in our way of presenting the horse power numbers]. But now we have corrected the numbers and the correction is here to stay. Some may suggest that earlier we elected to represent ourselves in the best possible light. But now we represent ourselves in the poorest of light, power wise, without someone [some authority] having asked us to do that".

And then he says:

"Our customers have been in doubt when it comes to the number of horse powers the Model S delivers at the wheels. In order to create clarity we have changed the way we communicate the number of horse powers on our website. We report, as always, the maximum output of the motors, which is in accordance with EU regulations, but to make things absolutely clear we have also added "battery limited hp". This is not a legal requirement and the resulting number of horsepowers is affected by a number of variables (state of charge, temperature etc.). But we have chosen to publish this number in order to meet the wishes of our customers."
Thanks for the thorough translation. It represents a completely different picture than the one previously presented. And it matches what I had been thinking. Tesla previously used a rating that that EU regulations had them use and now added a lower rating for clarity in response to complaints (while keeping the motor power numbers on the same page). This is different from a case where they are making a correction to an incorrect number. It goes into the importance of consumer perception vs legal requirements.

It'll be interesting to see how the consumer complaint case goes (although I'm not sure how applicable it is to the rest of EU, given from what has posted so far the group handling it is inclined to side more with the consumer in most cases). The significance of the incorrect translation in Denmark is going to be interesting too (AFAIK, the Norway translation was correct). That should answer the question of if Tesla is even required to append "motor power" when mentioning that rating.
 
And 485 of those were by vgrinshpun. :)



For the record, every time I've mentioned it (doubt that it was 485 times) I was right about the essence of this particular issue.

The amazing thing is that I bet that majority of the unhappy owners still can't bring themselves to acknowledge the facts, which is strange. If one is so confident that he/she is right, what is the harm in accepting the reality?
 
For the record, every time I've mentioned it (doubt that it was 485 times) I was right about the essence of this particular issue.

The amazing thing is that I bet that majority of the unhappy owners still can't bring themselves to acknowledge the facts, which is strange. If one is so confident that he/she is right, what is the harm in accepting the reality?

Your definitions of "reality" and "facts" seem to differ from the rest of the world.

The actual reality is that the people unhappy about this particular issue believe they have been mislead, and rightfully so based on the facts. You can mention ECE R85 another 485 times and it won't make a lick of difference because it's irrelevant.
 
Your definitions of "reality" and "facts" seem to differ from the rest of the world.

The actual reality is that the people unhappy about this particular issue believe they have been mislead, and rightfully so based on the facts. You can mention ECE R85 another 485 times and it won't make a lick of difference because it's irrelevant.

Why do you think ECE R85 is irrelevant?
 
Your definitions of "reality" and "facts" seem to differ from the rest of the world.

The actual reality is that the people unhappy about this particular issue believe they have been mislead, and rightfully so based on the facts. You can mention ECE R85 another 485 times and it won't make a lick of difference because it's irrelevant.

I have two questions for you.

If it is so irrelevant, why so much time was spent on repeating incessantly that 691hp was meaningless?

If it is so irrelevant, why unhappy owners were so bent on atacking the simple fact that 691 motor hp Tesla listed on their Site was not the "made up" number, but the rating according to the ECE R 85?

It seems that you are trying to have it both ways.
 
Why do you think ECE R85 is irrelevant?

I have two questions for you.

If it is so irrelevant, why so much time was spent on repeating incessantly that 691hp was meaningless?

If it is so irrelevant, why unhappy owners were so bent on stacking the simple fact that 691 motor hp Tesla listed on their Site was not the "made up" number, but the rating according to the ECE R 85?

It seems that you are trying to have it both ways.

In October 2014 on Tesla's website, with regard to the 691 HP number, if there was a link to ECE R85, or even a mention of it in the smallest print possible anywhere at all, then it would be relevant and I guarantee this conversation wouldn't even be taking place. The *fact* is that there was no mention of ECE R85 anywhere in any specs that a prospective customer could have reasonably obtained prior to ordering. Therefore ECE R85 is in fact irrelevant to the conversation. It doesn't matter what metric Tesla used to come up with the 691 HP number if that method was unknown at the time by customers and Tesla staff and was touted as the power produced by the vehicle by them and others at the time.

Edit: Actually, the earliest mention of ECE R85 I can find relating to Tesla is from stopcrazypp in August 2015, a full 10 months after the P85D was announced, and not from Tesla themselves.
 
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This really shouldn't be that hard. Either the standard exists and Tesla interpreted it correctly or they didn't. That doesn't take away from the claim that some say Telsa mislead people but it would give Tesla ground to stand on.
I'm glad people are word counting.
691hp
Tesla
ECE R85
 
In October 2014 on Tesla's website, with regard to the 691 HP number, if there was a link to ECE R85, or even a mention of it in the smallest print possible anywhere at all, then it would be relevant and I guarantee this conversation wouldn't even be taking place. The *fact* is that there was no mention of ECE R85 anywhere in any specs that a prospective customer could have reasonably obtained prior to ordering. Therefore ECE R85 is in fact irrelevant to the conversation. It doesn't matter what metric Tesla used to come up with the 691 HP number if that method was unknown at the time by customers and Tesla staff and was touted as the power produced by the vehicle by them and others at the time.

Edit: Actually, the earliest mention of ECE R85 I can find relating to Tesla is from stopcrazypp in August 2015, a full 10 months after the P85D was announced, and not from Tesla themselves.

You did not answer my questions:smile:
 
When was this posted? Doesn't appear to be official Tesla document but lists 60kWh and has reference to the standard which is irrelevant.

http://www.auto-outlet.fi/wp-content/uploads/Tesla_Model_S.pdf

So you link to a non-English document that you admit "Doesn't appear to be official" that's supposed to make a European standard that wasn't mentioned at any point anywhere during my purchase process of the P85D.... as defense for it being relevant?

*Unsubscribes again*
 
So you link to a non-English document that you admit "Doesn't appear to be official" that's supposed to make a European standard that wasn't mentioned at any point anywhere during my purchase process of the P85D.... as defense for it being relevant?

*Unsubscribes again*

How many times is this that you've unsubscribed saying you won't be back to comment on this topic? That should be added to the wiki.

I was pointing out that the standard and Tesla was mentioned before. Maybe someone can translate it or knows that website.
 
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The point was the standard has been used by Tesla in the past so is not new. If Tesla had started with the P85D using the standard that we can't name and didn't tell anyone then you'd have a point.


I cannot see that the link you provided from Germany is giving any indication of what have been communicated by tesla when the P85D customers actually made their buing decision...