Stop the Press! Tesla announces REAL HP numbers for P85D and P90L

[stopcrazypp]

I've seen 3.7 seconds too but that might be confused with the ICE version. But ICE cars are harder to get that perfect launch than EV's so it's not surprising the Electric had a *slight* edge coming out of the gate. HOwever, as the race progresses, the Electric continues to put distance pretty much all speeds, all the while weighing 1400 lbs more than the Black. Pretty darned incredible actually.

Also, when you watch this car in other videos around tracks and see just how easily it breaks traction at high speeds, it's clear this is in another ballpark of performance compared to the P85D.

I took the SLS e-cell number from the Mercedes website (under accumulated data):
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/webspecial/sls_e-drive/eng.php
SLS AMG black from Daimler press release:
http://www.daimler.com/dcmedia/0-921-1188339-1-1547450-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0.html

The problem with that inconsistency is that it indicates a bad launch by the SLS AMG Black and that means you can't take the 11.2 second number at face value. If you take the 0.3 second difference and assume a head to head 0-100kph, that is a 11.5 second 1/4 mile, which is within the range of the P85D.

I should note the Curb weigh of SLS AMG Black is 3417 lbs, so difference is actually ~1000 lbs.

Keep in mind we are assuming the 4400 lb SLS E-cell has 740hp battery-limited horsepower, while the 4900lb P90DL has 532hp battery-limited horsepower and Motor Trend ran that car at a 10.9 second quarter. That's still with a pretty big 200hp gap and less curb weight. I don't think it is conclusive from the Top Gear video that the car makes 740hp battery-limited power.

 

[vgrinshpun]

That's Estimated. They did not test the 1/4 mile time. Top Gear did and it killed the 11.2 second black in a side by side 1/4 mile race. The fact that the 0-60 is slower than the P85D due to software limiting only means it has to make even more power up top to compensate.

Why are they adding the motor powers and stating that as peak horsepower? Because the motors are the limiting factor, not the battery.

At 13:15 in this video, they talk about 1/3 of the horsepower being available with one of the three battery modules implying that the battery can produce at least the stated horsepower by itself.

The 3 modules total 864 cells that are *much* larger than the 7000+ 18650's found in the Tesla battery. I'd like to see some proof or almost proof that this battery can't produce the power.

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Facts:

1) The SLS AMG Electric is faster than the AMG Black in the 1/4 mile.
2) The SLS AMG Black is an 11.2 second car.
3) It's faster at low speeds and especially higher speeds in the 1/4 mile.
4) It's 4800 lbs compared to the Black's 3400 lbs (1400 lb difference but still killed at higher speed by Electric).

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I've seen 3.7 seconds too but that might be confused with the ICE version. But ICE cars are harder to get that perfect launch than EV's so it's not surprising the Electric had a *slight* edge coming out of the gate. HOwever, as the race progresses, the Electric continues to put distance pretty much all speeds, all the while weighing 1400 lbs more than the Black. Pretty darned incredible actually.

Also, when you watch this car in other videos around tracks and see just how easily it breaks traction at high speeds, it's clear this is in another ballpark of performance compared to the P85D.

-

Well, the problem is that you can't it have it both ways.

The SLS Electric has 0 to 100kph time of 3.9s, 0.3 seconds slower that the SLS Black Series, which has 0 to 100kph time of 3.6s. Both numbers are Mercedes metrics per the Autocar.

If the Black Series was never ahead of the SLS Electric for the the whole duration of the drag race shown in Top Gear, that means that for whatever reason (the leading one most likely being script of the show) the Black series in this particular race was at least 0.3s slower than it's MB specified time of 3.6 s 0 to 100kph. If that is true - as seen from the Top Gear video - that means that although it has specified 1/4 mile time of 11.2s, it clearly was NOT during this particular drag race. It was at most 11.2+0.3=11.5s car in this race. This is assuming that aside from some unexplained retardation in the beginning of the race the SLS Black Series was **really** floored for the remainder of the race, which is not the fact. But to be conservative, lets assume that the trickery was applied just in the beginning of the race.

According to the video SLS electric beat the Black Series by about 2.5 car lengths. Taking into account trap speed of 128mph and car length of 182.6 inches, the 2.5 length lead is equivalent to 0.2s. So at best the SLS electric in this particular race did 1/4 mile in 11.3s.

Discounting the Motor Trend obtained 10.9s time for P90DL we are left with the next best time of 11.2, which is 0.1s faster than SLS Electric in in the Top Gear video.

So here we go again, how is it possible for 2 seat purpose built sports car built by MB to loose drag race to P85DL, 5+2 seat four door sedan that weighs 263lbs more, and has 218hp less (750-532=218)? Let's get real here - the answer is quite simple - MB SLS Electric has 750 motor hp that is limited by the battery to significantly less than that. Unless, of course, you want to argue that MB does not know how to properly tune and optimize a sports car.

So MB advertises its SLS electric in exactly the same way as does Tesla - per ECE R85.

 

[sorka]

I took the SLS e-cell number from the Mercedes website (under accumulated data):
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/webspecial/sls_e-drive/eng.php
SLS AMG black from Daimler press release:
http://www.daimler.com/dcmedia/0-921-1188339-1-1547450-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0.html

The problem with that inconsistency is that it indicates a bad launch by the SLS AMG Black and that means you can't take the 11.2 second number at face value. If you take the 0.3 second difference and assume a head to head 0-100kph, that is a 11.5 second 1/4 mile, which is within the range of the P85D.

I should note the Curb weigh of SLS AMG Black is 3417 lbs, so difference is actually ~1000 lbs.

Keep in mind we are assuming the 4400 lb SLS E-cell has 740hp battery-limited horsepower, while the 4900lb P90DL has 532hp battery-limited horsepower and Motor Trend ran that car at a 10.9 second quarter. That's still with a pretty big 200hp gap and less curb weight. I don't think it is conclusive from the Top Gear video that the car makes 740hp battery-limited power.

Haven't seen anything yet close to 4400 lbs.


4652 lbs
2013 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Electric Drive C 197 specifications, information, data, photos 319242
Mercedes-AMG SLS Electric Drive Review | Autocar

4700 lbs
2014 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Electric Drive First Drive Car and Driver

The Black launch sure didn't looked bogged down but even if it were, the telling thing is that at higher speeds, where both cars would be making peak power, the Electric continues to pull on the Black showing that it has a better power to weight ratio. Assuming that the Electric was only accelerating as fast and not faster:

Electric weighs 36% (using the lower weight) more than Black.
To have the same power to weight ratio, the Electric would need 857 hp to equal the Black's 630 hp. Assuming a super low drive train loss of 10% (from the battery) vs say 16% (from the drive shaft) for the rear wheel drive Black would result in a drivetrain loss discount of 6% so 857 * 0.94 = 805 hp battery power.

And if they have *exactly* the same power to weight ratio based on peak power, you'd expect the Electric to have an edge as the ICE will not stay at peak all the time but will be on either side of peak at the shift points so the average power between the shift points will be down just a tad from peak.

 

[vgrinshpun]

Its pretty clear to me at least test the 691 figure is not fake in what it represents, the problem is that what it represents is not what people expected it to. Hence that's why I've trying to break the argument down to constituent parts so people actually know what they're arguing about.

its not worked.

It now seems from some quarters that what was originally a defence that tesla had done no wrong is now an argument that merc were worse as if that makes it ok. And I'm not even sure the merc sls e thing is available to buy other than by a very niche group so it's hardly the same consumer issue.

Not at all. The argument is that all manufacturers are marketing their EVs using motor power per the only available applicable standard - ECE R85. In case of Tesla this rating is the one that is mostly responsible for the 0 to 60mph time advertised by Tesla.

 

[sorka]

Interesting. 805 hp at the battery is 600KW. (805 / 1.341). How coincidental.

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Not at all. The argument is that all manufacturers are marketing their EVs using motor power per the only available applicable standard - ECE R85.

I have a bunch of reasons why that's just not true. I can post them again if you like

 

[vgrinshpun]

Haven't seen anything yet close to 4400 lbs.


4652 lbs
2013 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Electric Drive C 197 specifications, information, data, photos 319242
Mercedes-AMG SLS Electric Drive Review | Autocar

4700 lbs
2014 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Electric Drive First Drive Car and Driver

The Black launch sure didn't looked bogged down but even if it were, the telling thing is that at higher speeds, where both cars would be making peak power, the Electric continues to pull on the Black showing that it has a better power to weight ratio. Assuming that the Electric was only accelerating as fast and not faster:

Electric weighs 36% (using the lower weight) more than Black.
To have the same power to weight ratio, the Electric would need 857 hp to equal the Black's 630 hp. Assuming a super low drive train loss of 10% (from the battery) vs say 16% (from the drive shaft) for the rear wheel drive Black would result in a drivetrain loss discount of 6% so 857 * 0.94 = 805 hp battery power.

And if they have *exactly* the same power to weight ratio based on peak power, you'd expect the Electric to have an edge as the ICE will not stay at peak all the time but will be on either side of peak at the shift points so the average power between the shift points will be down just a tad from peak.

All these calculations based on hp to weight ratios comparison between the SLS electric and the Black Series are invalid because they have different torque characteristics.

The absurd result you got is just a proof that the method is wrong. If SLS puts out 805hp how is it possible for it to have the same 1/4 mile as P85DL that has 273hp less (805-553=273) and weighs 263 lbs more?

I suggest applying your hp to weight wizardry to now calculate how much hp does 263lbs heavier P85DL has if it has the same 1/4 mile time as 805hp SLS Electric. My bet is that you get more than 532hp. :smile:

May be you should advise Andy to retract the letter - it appears that there was a serious flaw in your technical advice:biggrin:

 

[P85DEE]

Haven't seen anything yet close to 4400 lbs.


4652 lbs
2013 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Electric Drive C 197 specifications, information, data, photos 319242
Mercedes-AMG SLS Electric Drive Review | Autocar

4700 lbs
2014 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Electric Drive First Drive Car and Driver

The Black launch sure didn't looked bogged down but even if it were, the telling thing is that at higher speeds, where both cars would be making peak power, the Electric continues to pull on the Black showing that it has a better power to weight ratio. Assuming that the Electric was only accelerating as fast and not faster:

Electric weighs 36% (using the lower weight) more than Black.
To have the same power to weight ratio, the Electric would need 857 hp to equal the Black's 630 hp. Assuming a super low drive train loss of 10% (from the battery) vs say 16% (from the drive shaft) for the rear wheel drive Black would result in a drivetrain loss discount of 6% so 857 * 0.94 = 805 hp battery power.

And if they have *exactly* the same power to weight ratio based on peak power, you'd expect the Electric to have an edge as the ICE will not stay at peak all the time but will be on either side of peak at the shift points so the average power between the shift points will be down just a tad from peak.

I think the 4400 lb number may have come from here and was for the SLS AMG E Cell.

2013 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG E-Cell - Prototype Drive - Car Reviews - Car and Driver

 

[sorka]

All these calculations based on hp to weight ratios comparison between the SLS electric and the Black Series are invalid because they have different torque characteristics.

That doesn't matter once both cars are producing peak horsepower. Torque is how much power is produced at a particular RPM and high torque means more power at low RPMs.

The absurd result you got is just a proof that the method is wrong. If SLS puts out 805hp how is it possible for it to have the same 1/4 mile as P85DL that has 273hp less (805-553=273) and weighs 263 lbs more?

1) Same 1/4 mile? Not even close. I assume you mean the P90DL as there is not P85DL yet. The best 1/4 time ever on a P90DL is 11.4. The Electric is clearly faster than the Black's 11.2 second times. I don't include the half second faster MT ringer car as it was clearly making a lot more than the 456KW we've seen on the P90DLs.
2) Slower launch - The Electric is clearly limiting the power at lower RPMs probably to avoid drivetrain stress from high torque. At higher RPMs you can make more power with less torque. If they're limiting battery power to keep from exceeding a motor shaft torque limit, the power will continue to rise as the RPMs rise without increasing torque. So it gets a faster than 11.2 1/4 mile despite the fact that it's 0-60 is WAY slower than the P90DL.

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I think the 4400 lb number may have come from here and was for the SLS AMG E Cell.

2013 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG E-Cell - Prototype Drive - Car Reviews - Car and Driver

Ahh. That makes sense. The previous generation Electric with the lighter 48 kWh battery. Thanks for that.

 

[P85DEE]

That doesn't matter once both cars are producing peak horsepower. Torque is how much power is produced at a particular RPM and high torque means more power at low RPMs.



1) Same 1/4 mile? Not even close. I assume you mean the P90DL as there is not P85DL yet. The best 1/4 time ever on a P90DL is 11.4. The Electric is clearly faster than the Black's 11.2 second times. I don't include the half second faster MT ringer car as it was clearly making a lot more than the 456KW we've seen on the P90DLs.
2) Slower launch - The Electric is clearly limiting the power at lower RPMs probably to avoid drivetrain stress from high torque. At higher RPMs you can make more power with less torque. If they're limiting power from the battery to keep from exceeding a certain torque, the power will continue to rise as the RPMs rise. So it gets a faster than 11.2 1/4 mile despite the fact that it's 0-60 is WAY slower than the P90DL.

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Ahh. That makes sense. The previous generation Electric with the lighter 48 kWh battery. Thanks for that.

No problem.

I'll throw this in too.

The best P90D Ludicrous quarter mile time that we have so far is technically 11.3.

I'm seeing that the Black has 622 horsepower, weighs in at 3,650 lbs and runs the quarter in 11.2. (I see it as "estimated" on this web site too)
2014 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Black Series First Drive Car and Driver

I'm seeing that the Tesla P90D at supposedly "532 horsepower" and about 1,000 lbs heavier, at 4,647 lbs, but has run 11.3 vs the Black's 11.2

I'm wondering how, with 90 fewer horses, and carrying an extra half ton of weight, the P90D Ludicrous is that close, 11.2 vs 11.3 to the Black.

The other thing I wonder about, is that link that I just gave, shows that the "estimate" of 11.2 seconds in the quarter, was "right" for the Black at 11.2 because the Black is a verified 11.2 car.

I'm wondering how the same car and driver group got the estimate for the SLS AMG Electric at 12.5 and this is supposed to be so far off from what it actually runs in the quarter, even though we have no official times for it in the quarter.
2014 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Electric Drive First Drive Car and Driver

The Car and Driver "estimate" for the Black, shows me that I can trust the Car and Driver "estimates" for quarter mile times, because they got it dead on for the Black.

And so I'm going to trust the Car and driver estimates for the quarter for the SLS AMG Electric, which is 12.5 for the quarter, vs the Top Gear video.

I firmly believe that the Black is considerably quicker in the quarter than the SLS AMG Electric, and that the Top Gear video can hardly be relied upon.

 

[kennybobby]

Does the 532hp P90DL use a different Performance rear drivetrain with the large diameter motor shaft, large diameter spline and outboard bearing, than the 463hp P85D? Makes you wonder where that extra power is being carried...

 

[sorka]

No problem.

I'll throw this in too.

The best P90D Ludicrous quarter mile time that we have so far is technically 11.3.

Isn't that 11.384?

 

[Andyw2100]

Isn't that 11.384?

I think the convention is to round down.

I read that if someone runs a 10.999 quarter, that would meet the spec of a 10.9 quarter.

It's kinda like being educated on 1-foot roll out all over again. If that's the convention, that's what it is.

 

[vgrinshpun]

1) Same 1/4 mile? Not even close. I assume you mean the P90DL as there is not P85DL yet. The best 1/4 time ever on a P90DL is 11.4. The Electric is clearly faster than the Black's 11.2 second times. I don't include the half second faster MT ringer car as it was clearly making a lot more than the 456KW we've seen on the P90DLs.
2) Slower launch - The Electric is clearly limiting the power at lower RPMs probably to avoid drivetrain stress from high torque. At higher RPMs you can make more power with less torque. If they're limiting battery power to keep from exceeding a motor shaft torque limit, the power will continue to rise as the RPMs rise without increasing torque. So it gets a faster than 11.2 1/4 mile despite the fact that it's 0-60 is WAY slower than the P90DL.

Well, the problem is that the Black Series did not do 1/4 mile in 11.2 seconds in the Top Gear video you are referring to. If it did not get ahead of SLS electric in 0 to 100kph, then it was 0.3s slower than its specified 0 to 100kph time. So its 1/4 mile was 11.5s at best.

So are you going to calculate the REAL hp of the Ludicrous using your weight to hp method or you'd like me to do it?

 

[sorka]

Well, the problem is that the Black Series did not do 1/4 mile in 11.2 seconds in the Top Gear video you are referring to. If it did not get ahead of SLS electric in 0 to 100kph, then it was 0.3s slower than its specified 0 to 100kph time. So its 1/4 mile was 11.5s at best.
So are you going to calculate the REAL hp of the Ludicrous using your weight to hp method or you'd like me to do it?

You don't know the Black didn't do it any more than you don't know that the Electric was faster from 0-60 than 3.9 seconds.

The video clearly shows the ELectric putting on distance between the black well after 60 MPH so the Electric has a higher power to weight ratio.

BTW, I'm still waiting for the evidence that the Electric's 60 KWh battery can't output 552 KW.

The picture is funny

 

[stopcrazypp]

Haven't seen anything yet close to 4400 lbs.


4652 lbs
2013 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Electric Drive C 197 specifications, information, data, photos 319242
Mercedes-AMG SLS Electric Drive Review | Autocar

4700 lbs
2014 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Electric Drive First Drive Car and Driver

I just googled "sls e-cell curb weight" (since the Mercedes website doesn't mention it at all) and the first two results says 4400lbs, but it could have been the difference between prototype and the actual production version looking at it more carefully:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-mercedes-benz-sls-amg-e-cell-prototype-drive
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/reviews/a16033/2012-mercedes-benz-sls-amg-e-cell/

The Black launch sure didn't looked bogged down but even if it were, the telling thing is that at higher speeds, where both cars would be making peak power, the Electric continues to pull on the Black showing that it has a better power to weight ratio. Assuming that the Electric was only accelerating as fast and not faster:

Electric weighs 36% (using the lower weight) more than Black.
To have the same power to weight ratio, the Electric would need 857 hp to equal the Black's 630 hp. Assuming a super low drive train loss of 10% (from the battery) vs say 16% (from the drive shaft) for the rear wheel drive Black would result in a drivetrain loss discount of 6% so 857 * 0.94 = 805 hp battery power.

And if they have *exactly* the same power to weight ratio based on peak power, you'd expect the Electric to have an edge as the ICE will not stay at peak all the time but will be on either side of peak at the shift points so the average power between the shift points will be down just a tad from peak.

Doesn't really matter if it was bogged down or not. The fact is that the Black was apparently slower from 0-100km than the E-Cell in this race, which meant that the Black was not performing at its specified performance, so the 11.2 quarter figure goes out the window.

 

[vgrinshpun]

You don't know the Black didn't do it any more than you don't know that the Electric was faster from 0-60 than 3.9 seconds.

Oh, I see, now we have to assume that SLS Electric is faster than specified by MB. Wait, may be that means that the Black Series was also faster than specified 1/4 mile time of 11.2s? That's right! Therefore SLS electric has sub 11s time, if it was faster than the Black series that was obviously faster than it's specified time of 11.2s... Looks like we might end up doing endless loop calculation.

This just does not make any sense whatsoever.

BTW, I'm still waiting for the evidence that the Electric's 60 KWh battery can't output 552 KW.

I've posted it. Here it goes in case you missed it.

So here we go again, how is it possible for 2 seat purpose built sports car built by MB to loose drag race to P90DL, 5+2 seat four door sedan that weighs 263lbs more, and has 218hp less (750-532=218)? Let's get real here - the answer is quite simple - MB SLS Electric has 750 motor hp that is limited by the battery to significantly less than that. Unless, of course, you want to argue that MB does not know how to properly tune and optimize a sports car.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I've posted it. Here it goes in case you missed it.

So here we go again, how is it possible for 2 seat purpose built sports car built by MB to loose drag race to P90DL, 5+2 seat four door sedan that weighs 263lbs more, and has 218hp less (750-532=218)? Let's get real here - the answer is quite simple - MB SLS Electric has 750 motor hp that is limited by the battery to significantly less than that. Unless, of course, you want to argue that MB does not know how to properly tune and optimize a sports car.

To be fair, we can't really conclude that from what is known so far about the SLS E-Cell. We don't have a clocked 1/4 mile or 0-100mph, nor any dyno/v-box results for it. All we can say is that it has disappointing straight-line performance given the apparent power to weight ratio advantage compared to the P90D L, which calls into question of the significance of using battery-limited power as an indicator of straight-line performance even if the assumption is the E-Cell is specifying its battery-limited power.

 

[P85DEE]

Isn't that 11.384?

Yes.

Isn't 11.384 still an 11.3?

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I think the convention is to round down.

I read that if someone runs a 10.999 quarter, that would meet the spec of a 10.9 quarter.

It's kinda like being educated on 1-foot roll out all over again. If that's the convention, that's what it is.

You are exactly right.

10.99999999999999 is still a 10.9.

Put another way, if I were trying to break 11 seconds at a drag strip, well then a 10.997 will do it just as a 10.944 would do it.

Both of 'em are 10.9s.

If I'm bracket racing, and I dial in an 11.0 and run a 10.999, or anywhere in the 10.9s or quicker, if the other guy runs at, or slower, than his own dial in time, or if he "breaks out" less than what I did, then I lose.

10.999 is not 11 flat, just as 11.384 is not 11.4. I dial in an 11.4 and go out an run an 11.384, I run the risk of losing because 11.384, is not considered to be 11.4.

However if I dial in an 11.300 and go out an run 11.384, I don't break out. And unless my opponent gets closer to his dial in than my .084 seconds is to mine, then I win. I have to run 11.300 or slower, to give myself the best chance. I get into trouble if I run better than 11.300, like for example 11.299 would mean that I broke out.

 

[vgrinshpun]

To be fair, we can't really conclude that from what is known so far about the SLS E-Cell. We don't have a clocked 1/4 mile or 0-100mph, nor any dyno/v-box results for it. All we can say is that it has disappointing straight-line performance given the apparent power to weight ratio advantage compared to the P90D L, which calls into question of the significance of using battery-limited power as an indicator of straight-line performance even if the assumption is the E-Cell is specifying its battery-limited power.

I've posted it, but in case you've missed it, the fact that the Black Series was slower than SLS electric 0 to 100 kph means that in this video it was at least .3 seconds behind its specified time. So in the best case scenario the Black Series run 12.5s in the video. That leads to the conclusion that P90DL has the same 1/4 mile time as SLS electric.

Just to clarify, MB called prototype with 48kWh battery E-cell, but switched to SLS Electric Drive name for the 60kWh battery car in production.

 

[sorka]

So here we go again, how is it possible for 2 seat purpose built sports car built by MB to loose drag race to P90DL, 5+2 seat four door sedan that weighs 263lbs more, and has 218hp less (750-532=218)? Let's get real here - the answer is quite simple - MB SLS Electric has 750 motor hp that is limited by the battery to significantly less than that. Unless, of course, you want to argue that MB does not know how to properly tune and optimize a sports car.

House of cards. The the SLS AMG Electric never lost to the P90DL in a drag race and it's pretty clear from the video that it would beat the current P90DL *even* though it's slower off the line. You asked how is it possible? I listed two reasons above and you ignored them.

At this point, there's no evidence to conclude that the Electric *doesn't* make the claimed 740 hp and I conclude from the video that it's likely that it makes even more than that. There have been no documented performance tests of this car in reviews or by customers. Mercedes hasn't provided and performance stats either except the 0-60 time which has no bearing on maximum horsepower.

You've stated multiple times that Tesla was just doing what other EV manufacturers do by pointing a the SLS as an example and it's simply not true.

Mercedes states the output of the motors at 740 hp and the output of the battery at 600 KW. There's no evidence at this point that it isn't the case.

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Yes.

Isn't 11.384 still an 11.3?

If that's the standard then I concede that That 11.384 was the outlier as every other documented P90DL run was in the 11.4 something to 11.5 something range.

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I've posted it, but in case you've missed it, the fact that the Black Series was slower than SLS electric 0 to 100 kph means that in this video it was at least .3 seconds behind its specified time. So in the best case scenario the Black Series run 12.5s in the video. That leads to the conclusion that P90DL has the same 1/4 mile time as SLS electric.

Just to clarify, MB called prototype with 48kWh battery E-cell, but switched to SLS Electric Drive name for the 60kWh battery car in production.

But the Electric continues to put distance on the Black even after 60 MPH which it could only do if it had a higher power to weight ratio.