Stop the Press! Tesla announces REAL HP numbers for P85D and P90L

[P85DEE]

I personally evaluate posts based on their merit.

It is not too difficult to discern the contributor's background and knowledge based on the post content and clarity.

You sir, are a smart man.

It it is very possible to get an idea as to a poster's knowledge base through his or her words.

 

[Auzie]

Who is bullying you?

Most contributors on this forum are anonymous by choice. I find it inappropriate to single people out and demand that they reveal who they are.

Why don't you come out and tell everyone your real name, VIN, etc.?

In any case, I am through with you. I would tell you how I really feel about your last post, and actually the majority of your posts, but it would wind up in snippiness or just deleted entirely for profanity.

 

[P85DEE]

And so have so many of your 'opponents'


Who is bullying you? It seams you take all this a little to personal for a P85D owner that does not feel mislead by Tesla and is a 100% happy owner. I think there is a new documentary out about Apple - 'The man in the machine'. I have not seen it, but it supossely askes some of the questions that should have been asked, but could not be asked because people were not allowed to critise anything about Apple. Don't no, but reading about it, just made me think about your posts.

To be fair, no one have been as 'vocal' as you have in such a short time frame, but good on you anyway, little gold stars (green dots) can be a powerful motivator ;-)

A humorous guess to your identity - Donald Trump?

No, I'm not Trump. lol. :biggrin:

 

[rns-e]

Most contributors on this forum are anonymous by choice. I find it inappropriate to single people out and demand that they reveal who they are.

Agree, but you could also argue that P85DEE was actively looking for that 'fight', he/she has been very aggressive in posting directly towards Andyw2100 in a very 'in your face tone' - but that may just be me interpreting it that way.

 

[Auzie]

You sir, are a smart man.

Thank you for the compliment. I assure you that I am not a smart man, though.

 

[P85DEE]

Most contributors on this forum are anonymous by choice. I find it inappropriate to single people out and demand that they reveal who they are.

I believe that the only people who are required to identify themselves on public fora and in social media are employees of a company being discussed.

Thus if you're a Ford employee and you're posting on a Ford forum, or in social media discussing Ford, then you have to identify yourself as a Ford employee.

Since I'm not a Tesla employee and do not work for them in any capacity whatsoever, I am no more required to offer up any information in my profile than any other owner in here.

Offering up VIN numbers and such, on a public forum, in my opinion is absurd.

 

[Auzie]

Agree, but you could also argue that P85DEE was actively looking for that 'fight', he/she has been very aggressive in posting directly towards Andyw2100 in a very 'in your face tone' - but that may just be me interpreting it that way.

This is a fight, no mistake about it. That is why most of us are so addictively following this thread.

P85DEE seems to be a fighter, nothing wrong with that.

 

[P85DEE]

I think the perception of a threat from you about the blacklist is because the blacklist was only mentioned in context with people who have directly sued Tesla.

Are you sure about that?

The reason why I ask is because I've read the post below.

Stop the Press! Tesla announces REAL HP numbers for P85D and P90L - Page 33

Tesla have never blacklisted anyone simply for going to the media with their complaints, so your suggestion was going beyond what Tesla have previously done.

It wasn't a "suggestion" btw, but to your part in bold, I'd respond by saying; perhaps you're right, perhaps not. But they and they alone would seem to have the option to step up their game in that regard and at their discretion.

But if you're wondering about my musings regarding any potential for what we are referring to as blacklisting, I made my remark with both of Canuck's posts in mind. One of which I already linked to, and another post which can be read in entirety in the below link.

Stop the Press! Tesla announces REAL HP numbers for P85D and P90L - Page 35

"It's also very common and all automakers have such a list. No private company is required to sell its product to whoever who wants it and there doesn't have to be a reason at all but if there is a reason then it can't be based on discrimination.. Same with any business. A restaurant, for example, can refuse service to anyone, but they can't based on your race."

 

[Auzie]

I believe that the only people who are required to identify themselves on public fora and in social media are employees of a company being discussed.

Since I'm not a Tesla employee and do not work for them in any capacity whatsoever, I am no more required to offer up any information in my profile than any other owner in here.

Offering up VIN numbers and such, on a public forum, in my opinion is absurd.

I read forum rules and there is no requirement for Tesla employees or anyone else to identify themselves in the rules.

Tesla might have a policy for some or for all of its employees not to participate in this forum or on other public platforms. Or it might not. Or it might be someone's job to participate here on behalf of Tesla. There are so many options.

It makes business sense to proactively communicate on various platforms.


Contributor's anonymity is their choice. If someone chooses to identify themselves, that's a choice as well. Both choices have pros and cons.

I prefer anonymity as it levels the playing field. If people identify themselves, then their social status, ethnicity, gender, age, even physical characteristics start to weigh in discussions.

Without these distractions, all we have to consider when evaluating a contributor's post is the presentation, clarity of thought and the strength of the argument.

 

[P85DEE]

I read forum rules and there is no requirement for Tesla employees or anyone else to identify themselves in the rules.

Tesla might have a policy for some or for all of its employees not to participate in this forum or on other public platforms. Or it might not. Or it might be someone's job to participate here on behalf of Tesla. There are so many options.

It makes business sense to proactively communicate on various platforms.


Contributor's anonymity is their choice. If someone chooses to identify themselves, that's a choice as well. Both choices have pros and cons.

I prefer anonymity as it levels the playing field. If people identify themselves, then their social status, ethnicity, gender, age, even physical characteristics start to weigh in discussions.

Without these distractions, all we have to consider when evaluating a contributor's post is the presentation, clarity of thought and the strength of the argument.

I'm going to have to insist again that you are a smart man, sir.

You're right. In the case I mentioned and in the cases I was thinking of, it was actually "company policy" that employees who joined fora identify themselves.

That said, again you are entirely right. Posting up personal information on a public forum and which has nothing to do with the discussion(s) at hand, is less than prudent.

Clarity of thought, well thought out points, and articulating those points, are paramount to forum discussions.

The validity of one's opinions should hardly be based on tenure in here alone.

 

[vgrinshpun]

I'm going to have to insist again that you are a smart man, sir.

I don't believe Auzie was denying being smart...

 

[P85DEE]

Your tone is easy to misread. I read it as threatening too. The fact that you are implying criticism is something worthy of TM banning a customer from future sales is a slippery slope and, to use another analogy, one should be careful throwing stones in glass houses... In another post you state

Well a lot of this, if not all of it, is in the eye of the beholder. Some of us are going to have a different perception as to where criticism ends, and something beyond just criticism, begins.

again, aggressive, though now it could be perceived that your are implying tesla has malicious intent and not providing what paid for...

When you combine this with the facts that the majority of your posts since joining one month ago are confrontational, that you indicate that you are an owner of a p85d though are not verified either with any mention of vin range, firmware tracker use, etc and mask your identity behind an Internet persona, this may likely result in some dismissal of your postings.

I can accept that.

Dismissal or acceptance of my opinions amongst an Internet forum full of strangers is not going to positively or adversely affect my life nor it's quality.

I wish you well, though I won't be able to see your responses as you're the first person on my ignore list. If you wish to share more with the community or be receptive to feedback then please pm me and we can chat. Life is too short to have constant confrontation.

I know that you can't see this, but maybe someone else will tell you about it.

Tesla sold people Luducrous stating that it would get them 10.8 in the quarter when they bought it. In other words "now" if you're buying it now.

But Tesla never said that the P85D had 691 horsepower which is what a few people in here are attempting to take them to task for.

See the difference?

- - - Updated - - -

I don't believe Auzie was denying being smart...

Well, vgrinshpun I've looked at your posts too, and it's clear to me that you are a smart man as well.

Your posts are extremely well thought out, informative and they have a confident and persistent flavor to them, which I enjoy reading and admire.

Please continue with your enlightening and informative posts, as myself and no doubt many others, look forward to reading them.

 

[tomas]

AND, neither tenure nor number of posts, nor green stamps give any more credence to an opinion.
This forum truly started as owners club for a small, dedicated group of passionate enthusiasts for car and mission. Hence vins and such.
There is still lots of passion as evidenced by this thread, but the membership is more diverse... And forum thus evolved. It is choice as to what threads to follow and participate in. What surprises me about this topic is the number of very active threads. It almost seems like campaign to dominate the forum.
Many owners have been unhappy about something along the way (A packs, lowering, stealth addition of AP sensors, V7 UI), but it was mostly in one thread, and slowed once it had all been said.
No problem with people bein passionate on different sides of issue. It's annoying when it goes on and on with nothing added except new ways to argue. Tune in another channel?

 

[vgrinshpun]

Well, I've looked at your posts too, and it's clear to me that you are a smart man as well.

Your posts are extremely well thought out, informative and they have a confident and persistent flavor to them, which I enjoy reading and admire.

Thank you for kind words, but you might've missed the point of my post. :smile:

 

[P85DEE]

Thank you for kind words, but you might've missed the point of my post. :smile:

In going back and looking at the prior posts, I actually think that I caught the point of your post.

I hope that I didn't come across as sexist.

 

[Kalllagtunet]

P85DEE [/COLOR]

Well, I've looked at your posts too, and it's clear to me that you are a smart man as well.

Your posts are extremely well thought out, informative and they have a confident and persistent flavor to them, which I enjoy reading and admire.

Thank you for kind words, but you might've missed the point of my post. :smile:

You two need to get a room...

So far nearly 25% of P85D owners in Norway have now officially complained Tesla in for false advertising...: : Klagestorm fra sinte Tesla-eiere - Elbil - VG

I.e, the fight is on in the proper channel not in this derailed thread.

 

[lolachampcar]

There are some very well written and compelling posts of late. Every time I start to think ok, I can go along with this or that point, I get a recurring nagging sensation.

No matter how deep I look into the technical side I can not get over the idea that the P85D is the equivalent of a 691 hp ICE with a fuel pump in the car that can only deliver high 400s of fuel. If MB tried to say "but the regs say we have to spec our engine with the hp it produces on the dyno with a much bigger fuel pump so it's ok to promote 691 even though we know you will only ever get around 500 in the car", they would get slaughtered.

The idea that the P85D can put a tremendous amount of power to the road early in an acceleration run has no real bearing on the issue above.

 

[P85DEE]

You two need to get a room...

So far nearly 25% of P85D owners in Norway have now officially complained Tesla in for false advertising...: : Klagestorm fra sinte Tesla-eiere - Elbil - VG

I.e, the fight is on in the proper channel not in this derailed thread.

As I understand the situation with regard to Norway, at least part of the issue is a translation matter, no?

- - - Updated - - -

There are some very well written and compelling posts of late. Every time I start to think ok, I can go along with this or that point, I get a recurring nagging sensation.

No matter how deep I look into the technical side I can not get over the idea that the P85D is the equivalent of a 691 hp ICE with a fuel pump in the car that can only deliver high 400s of fuel. If MB tried to say "but the regs say we have to spec our engine with the hp it produces on the dyno with a much bigger fuel pump so it's ok to promote 691 even though we know you will only ever get around 500 in the car", they would get slaughtered.

The idea that the P85D can put a tremendous amount of power to the road early in an acceleration run has no real bearing on the issue above.

I look at it as a new technology and with two separate motors, one front one back, with a new set of rules different from those used in ICE formats when it comes to power rating.

Had they had said "691 horsepower", well then I'd be upset.

But with regard to Mercedes, they tout their SLS AMG Coupe Electric Drive as having 751 horsepower.

The SLS AMG Electric Drive

And it's results don't appear to be consistent with those of a 751 hp car.

2014 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Electric Drive First Drive Car and Driver

Weighs in at about the same, or maybe even a little less than a P85D. If you're into 0-60 times, it posts up 3.7 seconds, does the quarter in 12.5 seconds..

They added the power of all four motors it seems to arrive at the power figure.

 

[vgrinshpun]

There are some very well written and compelling posts of late. Every time I start to think ok, I can go along with this or that point, I get a recurring nagging sensation.

No matter how deep I look into the technical side I can not get over the idea that the P85D is the equivalent of a 691 hp ICE with a fuel pump in the car that can only deliver high 400s of fuel. If MB tried to say "but the regs say we have to spec our engine with the hp it produces on the dyno with a much bigger fuel pump so it's ok to promote 691 even though we know you will only ever get around 500 in the car", they would get slaughtered.

The idea that the P85D can put a tremendous amount of power to the road early in an acceleration run has no real bearing on the issue above.

I suggest looking at the information MB has on their Site regarding the MB SLS electric drive. They list specs in a way similar to Tesla, i.e. adding motor hp of four motors. The total exceeds the power that can be afforded by the 60kWh battery. They list battery as having "potential" electric output of 600kW, but at 10C it is a fraction of a second rating, with actual output less than power called for by the four motor at their max power output. I imagine that the word "potential" they used to describe the battery power rating would have been considered by unhappy P85D owners much more dodgy than what Tesla did.

 

[Chasedrgc1223]

Oh jesus guys this is intense... While I agree the car's performance is much better than an equivalent HP ICE, the problem is Tesla deceived the public with manipulated, although true, numbers. A normal individual would likely not be able to understand what the manipulated numbers truly mean, as they clearly favor the P85D. Also, why are we all talking about HP when the torque of the P85D is absolutely ridiculous, and much higher than the 85D?