Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Should I buy AP 2.0, 2.5 or wait for 3.0?

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I have a MS P100D, and about 8,000 miles on AP2. I previously had a MS 90D, and did 21,000 miles on AP1.

My view is this:
1) AP2 has finally reached parity with AP1. I use AP2 now in traffic; on divided urban roads; on small rural roads as well as freeway. It works really well now.
2) The most annoying thing with AP2 is that the auto wiper feature STILL does not work. Grrrrrr...
3) Full autonomy is still way off, so don't worry about 2/2.5/3 as far as computer. Tesla have said they will upgrade computer if needed for full autonomy, so we'll see. But still several years away.

So if you can afford it, get your P100D as soon as possible for the most kick-ass driving experience imaginable. You won't regret it.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: EinSV and SnowFlyer
I have a MS P100D, and about 8,000 miles on AP2. I previously had a MS 90D, and did 21,000 miles on AP1.

My view is this:
1) AP2 has finally reached parity with AP1. I use AP2 now in traffic; on divided urban roads; on small rural roads as well as freeway. It works really well now.
2) The most annoying thing with AP2 is that the auto wiper feature STILL does not work. Grrrrrr...
3) Full autonomy is still way off, so don't worry about 2/2.5/3 as far as computer. Tesla have said they will upgrade computer if needed for full autonomy, so we'll see. But still several years away.

So if you can afford it, get your P100D as soon as possible for the most kick-ass driving experience imaginable. You won't regret it.
I wonder if you would still think it was on par if you drove both cars now back to back with AP2 at its current state. My experience was living with our AP1 X everyday and then jumping into another X loaner with AP2 and I noticed the deficiencies immediately. Have you been driving the AP2 for a while to see the improvements and maybe AP2 is just much better than it was? I was so disappointed with the deficiencies that we decided to purchase a second AP1 after a week with the AP2 loaner. I was mainly disappointed with the AP2 diving for exits and the dozens of minor corrections it would make around gentle bends on the highway rather than a smooth gradual turn like on the AP1. It didn't seem bad around town unless there is a distance without right side lane markings then it would panic. I really wanted to like and buy an AP2 car but now as time passes I'm feeling better and better about my choice. AP2 may be satisfactory if you get used to it or haven't driven both back to back recently. It sure seems like it isn't there yet.
 
Last edited:
I wonder if you would still think it was on par if you drove both cars now back to back with AP2 at its current state. My experience was living with our AP1 X everyday and then jumping into another X loaner with AP2 and I noticed the deficiencies immediately. Have you been driving the AP2 for a while to see the improvements and maybe AP2 is just much better than it was? I was so disappointed with the deficiencies that we decided to purchase a second AP1 after a week with the AP2 loaner. I was mainly disappointed with the AP2 diving for exits and the dozens of minor corrections it would make around gentle bends on the highway rather than a smooth gradual turn like on the AP1. It didn't seem bad around town unless there is a distance without right side lane markings then it would panic. I really wanted to like and buy an AP2 car but now as time passes I'm feeling better and better about my choice. AP2 may be satisfactory if you get used to it or haven't driven both back to back recently. It sure seems like it isn't there yet.

I take your point, 'parity' will always be a bit subjective. However, 2017.36 (in the last two weeks) has seen a big improvement in all the irritating things that made AP2 deficient. The diving for exits may still be an issue, as I compensated for that some time back by driving in the middle lanes. But the big 'wobbles' that were so frequent are definitely less of an issue.

However, we are all still waiting for the 'big feature' that will put it beyond doubt that AP2 its on its way to full autonomy. Let's see...
 
  • Like
Reactions: buttershrimp
I take your point, 'parity' will always be a bit subjective. However, 2017.36 (in the last two weeks) has seen a big improvement in all the irritating things that made AP2 deficient. The diving for exits may still be an issue, as I compensated for that some time back by driving in the middle lanes. But the big 'wobbles' that were so frequent are definitely less of an issue.

However, we are all still waiting for the 'big feature' that will put it beyond doubt that AP2 its on its way to full autonomy. Let's see...

I did the same thing by driving in the middle lanes. I just felt a little guilty because I would reduce my speed a little to increase the range on trips and then you hold up traffic by not keeping right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TrafficEng
So if you can afford it, get your P100D as soon as possible for the most kick-ass driving experience imaginable. You won't regret it.

Most accurate thing I've ever read.... ever ever ever. Mind blowing.

I love AP2 and I believe it's at parity currently... but I'm driving an AP1 car again all next week and I'll do a comparison.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TrafficEng
Most accurate thing I've ever read.... ever ever ever. Mind blowing.

I love AP2 and I believe it's at parity currently... but I'm driving an AP1 car again all next week and I'll do a comparison.

Sounds good, I look forward to hearing how they compare.

I'll be using this car on crosscountry trips in snowy mountainous areas so range is my top priority. I also hear you that the P100D is amazing, a family member who owns one told me the same. Personally, I have trouble stomaching what a 100D costs. I am happily driving a 2003 Subaru WRX, but no longer want to pollute our atmosphere with tons and tons of carbon every year, just to get my butt from point A to point B, so a Tesla it is!
 
Sounds good, I look forward to hearing how they compare.

I'll be using this car on crosscountry trips in snowy mountainous areas so range is my top priority. I also hear you that the P100D is amazing, a family member who owns one told me the same. Personally, I have trouble stomaching what a 100D costs. I am happily driving a 2003 Subaru WRX, but no longer want to pollute our atmosphere with tons and tons of carbon every year, just to get my butt from point A to point B, so a Tesla it is!
Getting past the cost is difficult but it is fascinating how little regret most owners feel if they are fortunate enough to have the opportunity to stretch to buy a Tesla ... I feel like the motto of Tesla should be, “it’s not a car, it’s a Tesla”
 
Getting past the cost is difficult but it is fascinating how little regret most owners feel if they are fortunate enough to have the opportunity to stretch to buy a Tesla ... I feel like the motto of Tesla should be, “it’s not a car, it’s a Tesla”

Yup. Crazy money, but it's an amazing car, and I don't regret it at all - even though the Mobileye split killed my upgrade path and my car became obsolete two months after I got it - after waiting four months for it.
 
Waiting for 3.0 is a good idea, as it will be improved over current 2.5, however it will still not be as good as the 4.0 that is going to be released after that.

Tesla is constantly improving their vehicles. Perhaps faster than any other cars on the planet. Something better is always just around the corner. Elon's advice is to purchase when the timing is right for you. Drive the car for years of green enjoyment, then trade it in for a newer model when you see an advancement you simply find worth additional expense.
 
Waiting for 3.0 is a good idea, as it will be improved over current 2.5, however it will still not be as good as the 4.0 that is going to be released after that.

Tesla is constantly improving their vehicles. Perhaps faster than any other cars on the planet. Something better is always just around the corner. Elon's advice is to purchase when the timing is right for you. Drive the car for years of green enjoyment, then trade it in for a newer model when you see an advancement you simply find worth additional expense.

Let me put it this way... I was lucky I locked in the FSD for my car just in time for when it becomes functional in May of 2028. :)
 
  • Funny
Reactions: Kant.Ing
Model S P100D AP2 driver here and agree with everything u00mem9 posted in September, especially Tesla returning to Mobileye technology via Intel to limit the volume of egg on their faces. AP 2.0 or 2.5 makes no difference and I state that because the problem limiting the function of Tesla autopilot now is not hardware, it is software.

I spent the past 10 days driving an AP 1.0 MS P90D loaner while my P100D was at the SC for repairs covered under warranty and I can say that the AP 1.0 drove with great confidence on the highway. It tracks vehicles in 3 lanes (the lane you are in, plus one on either side), and thus can preemptively and gradually slow your vehicle "like butter" before a vehicle from one of the other 2 lanes switches into your lane. It can tell the difference between a car, truck, or motorcycle, and can therefore predict behavior of those types of vehicles more accurately. It's perception of lane lines is dead accurate and generally the vehicle says perfectly centered. It can accurately stop your vehicle based on the abrupt braking of the car 2 vehicles ahead of you (I have experienced this twice in the AP 1.0 car, but not yet in the AP 2.0 car, not to say 2.0 is not capable of this, I just personally have not experienced it). Its automatic high beam function is far more facile than the AP 2.0 vehicles. And it has functional automatic wiper which the 2.0 vehicles do not.

After returning to my P100D, I experienced the complete opposite of the above features I described above. The car drove so erratically due to inability to perceive lane lines correctly that I stopped using AP entirely.

This lack of functionality has nothing to do with hardware, as my P100D has 7 cameras dedicated to AP (AP 1.0 has only 1), and more powerful radar and ultrasonic sensors than 1.0. Short of adding in Lidar (which could happen with AP 3) better hardware means nothing. The difference in functionality has everything to do with software. The AP 1.0 car has the Mobileye system on chip IN ADDITION to Tesla's proprietary ADAS autopilot software, whereas the AP 2.0 and 2.5 cars only have the Tesla ADAS. The Mobileye chip encodes the deep neural net functions essential for autopilot. These deep neural net functions allow for visual object recognition, which range from accurate perception of lane lines, to the physical characteristics differentiating cars, trucks, and motorcycles, to finer points such as road surface conditions.

Mobileye spent over a decade developing this proprietary technology, and this technology alone. When Mobileye and Tesla split, Tesla thought they could develop the same technology on their own and get by without the Mobileye chip. No doubt they could have, but unfortunately they did not have the talent to recapitulate a decade worth of deep neural net software in 6-12 months as they tried to do, particularly given the thousands of other tasks they have to perform to succeed in the complex automotive industry. This is why a return to system on chip (SoC) deep neural net software is nearly guaranteed.

I predict that Tesla, being a good company, will eventually install the SoC encoding the deep neural net functions on the AP 2.0 and 2.5 cars once it decides which vendor to go with (be it Intel/Mobileye or another vendor). Until then, the AP 1.0 cars offer a solid level 2 autonomous driving experience on the highway, whereas the AP 2.0 and 2.5 cars offer a less predictable level 1-2 experience.

On the other hand... the actual experience of DRIVING the Model S P100D is unlike anything else in the world!!! It is a far more fun, responsive, and exhilarating car to drive than even the P90DL due to better handling, faster acceleration, and better traction control as well as longer range.
 
Not sure why you think the P100D has better traction control and handling over a P90D - as far as I am aware they’re the same.

But I agree with the points about AP and EAP. If you weren’t aware of the sensors and history, and you were used to EAP and then given an AP1 car to drive and were told that was the newer version, you’d believe it. The better lane recognition. The better vehicle recognition, the auto wipers, the reliable high beam etc all make it feel a more sorted solution. EAP is all about potential, AP1 is all about solid execution of what it does.