Safety Deal Breaker after Model X Test Drive

[Vitold]

That makes sense. We should have thought Tesla would over-design sensors for FWD safety beyond even trolls could make up stories for.

Yes sensor there would make sense, however none of the actual owners confirmed existence of such sensor and there are other reports of FWd not stopping when person was in a way (by MarkZ IIRC).

 

[Canuck]

People need to chill a little and respect others' opinions, as silly as they may be.

We have respect other people's silly opinions? Why? Whenever I have a silly opinion I want my friends and family to tell me it's silly and it deserves no respect at all. The last thing I want in my life is phony people respecting things that have no right to be respected. Taken to the extreme, that's exactly the life Kim Jong-il was born into and has continued to ensure remains for himself.

When it comes to safety, I'm far more concerned about the fact that motor vehicle accidents are a leading cause of death for children. Driving kids around in the Model S/X reduces that significantly. I'll take the risk on hurt fingers.

Motor vehicle injuries are a leading cause of death among children in the United States.1

 

[aronth5]

Think about it this way, no matter what other SUV you decide to get it won't be as safe in a wreck in a Model X. So if you can't say "watch your fingers" before you hit the button to close the falcon doors then by all means get a less safe car.

Excellent point. Any other suv less safe overall. Rollover risk alone is huge difference. Just say watch your fingers and let them learn a lesson when they dont.

Your children will be safer in the Model X than any other SUV you can buy so while the OP has a valid concern from his perspective the safest car for his family is the X.

 

[CarlK]

I'm so hoping op would come back to say thank you all now I know I need to buy the safest SUV for my children the MX but somehow I know that is not going to happen.

 

[pvogel]

I'm so hoping op would come back to say thank you all now I know I need to buy the safest SUV for my children the MX but somehow I know that is not going to happen.

Original post was post #1, his response in this thread 5 minutes or so after I responded is his only other post.

Some people feel they need a justification for not spending the massive amount of money this car costs (not quite 2x my first house in 1990!)

Some people may want to create FUD.

I give up figuring out people's motivations on posts like that.

I can respect his decision not to buy an X. I cannot respect or accept his perception of the 'danger' of the falcon doors.

 

[S'toon]

How do know I'm not typing with my toes? ;-)

Once upon a time many years ago I was a computer technician. One time I was talking with a customer about his computer. It wasn't until he asked for help carrying it out did I notice he had no arms.

 

[goneskiian]

Once upon a time many years ago I was a computer technician. One time I was talking with a customer about his computer. It wasn't until he asked for help carrying it out did I notice he had no arms.

Great story! I typed it tongue in cheek though as I am in possesion of all my digits. ;-)

 

[bonnie]

The reason no one has posted about losing fingers is because they physically can't, so we will never know who has lost them.

How do know I'm not typing with my toes? ;-)

Once upon a time many years ago I was a computer technician. One time I was talking with a customer about his computer. It wasn't until he asked for help carrying it out did I notice he had no arms.

Great story! I typed it tongue in cheek though as I am in possesion of all my digits. ;-)

Funny guys. I'm going to assume you're all well aware that there are plenty of assistive devices and software available for all of the above & were just joking around.

 

[Lyon]

I'm reminded of the time, right after I got my S, that I managed to shut the rear door on my kid's fingers. I swing it shut just as he reached up and grabbed the door seal. He still has his fingers even though it was very scary for a moment until I was able to get the door open.

My point, to the extent that I have one, is that any car door carries with it some risk of fingers getting caught. I don't think it's an objectively reasonable concern. That said, if you're uncomfortable with the falcon doors and are subjectively worried about them, don't buy it.

 

[Electricfan]

This was an amusing thread to read through. We got references to North Korea's dictator, and the politically correct police even checked in. Somebody test drove a Tesla and didn't like it!!!! OMG!!! And then posted about it on a forum where they hoped to get some reasonable responses - we sure showed them! They won't be back!!

 

[ohmman]

Somebody test drove a Tesla and didn't like it!!!! OMG!!! And then posted about it on a forum where they hoped to get some reasonable responses - we sure showed them! They won't be back!!

I think you're reading it with your own narrative in mind. There are plenty of logical reasons not to like a Tesla. This isn't one of them. Canuck said it best above - respecting opinions is good only as far as they're defensible. Once someone breaks out of the pattern of logic, I think it's fine to point out that the reason may be important to them, but doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

 

[Canuck]

This was an amusing thread to read through. We got references to North Korea's dictator, and the politically correct police even checked in. Somebody test drove a Tesla and didn't like it!!!! OMG!!! And then posted about it on a forum where they hoped to get some reasonable responses - we sure showed them! They won't be back!!

Are you saying he didn't get reasonable responses? I read many of them -- such as comparisons to conventional doors, the placement of the sensors, the amount of force used, etc. etc. However, this is a Tesla forum and Tesla did rank as one of the safest vehicles ever tested.

TESLA: Tesla Model S Achieves Best Safety Rating of Any Car Ever Tested - Business Insider

I don't think there's any reason to believe this is not also true for the Model X. And the point of this thread was safety, was it not? Maybe, rather than berating the OP, we're trying to educate him to help keep his kids really safe?

Just a thought.

 

[Buddyroe]

So when was the last time you guys went on a web page for a product you just checked out, just to tell everyone you DIDN'T like it? Most people never give doing something like that a second thought. And, if this guy was REALLY that interested in sharing his thoughts on the X, he would have made his first post saying he was going to test drive the X.

Four signals that this guy is a troll:

1) He made a point to say something negative about the X in general ("fun drive, wasn't TOO blown away")
2) A complaint about something that NO ONE else has even mentioned. It was probably the best BS idea he could come up with to post.
3) Was his first post and he has not been back.
4) Where did he do this test drive at?

 

[eyespii]

So when was the last time you guys went on a web page for a product you just checked out, just to tell everyone you DIDN'T like it? Most people never give doing something like that a second thought. And, if this guy was REALLY that interested in sharing his thoughts on the X, he would have made his first post saying he was going to test drive the X.

Four signals that this guy is a troll:

1) He made a point to say something negative about the X in general ("fun drive, wasn't TOO blown away")
2) A complaint about something that NO ONE else has even mentioned. It was probably the best BS idea he could come up with to post.
3) Was his first post and he has not been back.
4) Where did he do this test drive at?

The post didn't scream troll to me at all. There are plenty of people who lurk around forums and don't create accounts for years. There are lots of casual tesla fans out there, and perhaps he didn't feel like he had anything of note to contribute until his MX test drive. Just because you would have made a first post saying you were going for a test drive doesn't mean everyone would.

1) For all we know the guy might even be a MS or roadster owner - and maybe that's why he wasn't "blown away" by the test drive?

2) There aren't that many X's out there right now. It's possible that the potential issues, however minor they might be, have not uncovered themselves yet.

3) I wouldn't come back to this thread either if I had been lampooned to bits as he has.

4) Probably at one of the "meet your X" events around the country?


So while I don't think the guy is necessarily a troll, I do think this guy was looking for a reason to justify not dropping $100k+ on a car, and he came here to post looking for ego support from all of us. He didn't get it, and rightly so, cause honestly it is a pretty inane reason to cancel your order for the X.

 

[Tedkidd]

I empathize with the OP, but I do not sympathize. This thread is Exhibit #1, front and center, of what has occurred in our society within my lifetime in some absolutely unachievable, as well as undesirable, trend toward achieving absolute safety.

As far as the specific example of the doors, they epitomize What Is New. Danger? Consider objectively other items, situations and facets of our lives that are inherently far more dangerous: a second or third floor window. A hot iron...cook range...bathtub. The tires of any vehicle. Its tailpipe. The road over there. And the list is endless.

The difference, of course, is that the doors and their hinge-interstices, are new. That is all. And to bring in one of my favorite observers and interpreters of the human condition, the late, great Terry Pratchett, here he is discussing a terrible new invention - the steam engine locomotive - in his fictitious Raising Steam.

(Lipwig): "They seem to be irresistibly drawn by the novelty of live steam and speed."
(Reporter): "And a very dangerous novelty, would you not say, Mister Lipwig?"
(L): "Well now, everything old was once new and until explored was unfamiliar and dangerous and then, as sure as night follows day they become just part of the scenery. Believe me, sir, that'll happen here with the railway, too...and as far as scaring the elderly, well, one old lady recently told me that we should have waited until all the old people were dead before starting up with the railway, and I think you'd agree that might be a very long time."

Nicely put. I love this brilliant fellow's logical thoughts on "safety":

You raise two very good points:
Risk is a number, and that number is never “zero.” Risk is merely a probability of an occurrence. As such, each human in the US and Canada have a risk (probability) of 1E-7 of not living through this day. That is, the total combined causes of death (crime, motor vehicle accidents, disease, age, etc) means that any randomly selected human has a 1 in 10 million chance of dying today. Now, 1E-7 is a small number (0.0000001), but it is not “zero.” As such, there is never anything as “no risk.”


Consider the probability (risk) of getting hit by a meteor – it was reported that 1,000 people were injured on Feb. 15, 2013 around Chelyabinsk, Russia when a 7,000 ton meteor exploded on entry. Although I have not double checked the reference, it is reported that Phil Plait (a.k.a., “The Bad Astronomer”) calculated a risk of getting hit by a meteor was 1 in 700,000 (which is 1.4E-6)… again a small number but not zero. Now could you reduce the risk even further by wearing a steel hat and armor plate whenever you go outside? Could you reduce the risk even further by never going outside? Could you reduce the risk even further by living 4km deep within the Mponeng gold mine? Of course you could – but why would you, just to reduce the risk of getting hit.


Whereas risk is objective, then the number is low enough, we encounter a subjective threshold called “safety.” That is, “safety” is the attainment of an acceptable level of risk. Risk is objective, and safety is the irrational acceptance of a specified level of risk.


So, when someone wants to install a “radon mitigation system” to avoid the measly 225mrem/year of radiation, I would pose to them the following question: “Just how safe do you want to be?” And why, then, if you are worried about radon in your home, are you willing to drive to the grocery store and get milk (which carries five times more risk of death than radon in a home). Or indeed, why are you willing to live in South Carolina, instead of Tennessee, since living in SC carries ten times more risk of death than living in Tennessee. Why are you going to spend $2K dollars installing a radon mitigation system in your home, but you are doing nothing about removing the ambient benzene form your home, that carries far greater risk of cancer than does radon? What about the 100 mrem you are about to receive by flying out to California to see your great Aunt Agatha?


The answer lies in “fear.” People don’t fear driving to the store, because it’s a familiar risk – even though every one of us has driven by numerous horrific motor vehicle accidents (MVA), and each of us has personally seen the blood and guts and death, and probably personally know someone who has been killed in a MVA, yet probably none of us has see someone who was killed by radon – Similarly, one chooses to live in South Carolina or Georgia because those are nice places, and the fact that living in those states versus living in Nebraska, or Oklahoma increases the risk of death ten times greater than radon never enters people’s minds. Why? Answer: Awareness. The general public has been unnecessarily frightened out of their wits with irresponsible statements from various government entities wherein the risks are neither put into perspective and are not based on science.


If 4 pCi/l of PAEC (radon) results in a significant risk because a radioactive disintegration may occur at a cellular level, then consider this: If you are an average US adult, you have about 150 grams of potassium in your body right now. As you sit and read this post, you are irradiating about 4,400 Bq (120,000 pCi) of just the K40, (that equates to about 4,400 radioactive disintegrations per second). And that’s just from the potassium! And that occurs in your body each second you live.) At least 98 % of those disintegrations take place within body cells, and are potentially capable of altering the cell's DNA. So why aren’t you dead from cancer – indeed, why didn’t you die from cancer before the age of 2? Our own bodies irradiate us with ionizing radiation, at a rate of one fifth of that the average US citizen receives from radon (when we express the exposure as “dose” in mrems per year).


Answer – because, as of today, February 3, 2016, there has not been a single valid study ever performed on the face of the earth, devoid of confounders and unsupportable assumptions that has ever shown with confidence that radon, as typically encountered in homes increases the risk by an single iota. Indeed, most of the legitimate epidemiological studies performed thus far, show that the cancer rates in homes with low levels of radon are LOWER than the cancer rates in homes with no detectable levels of radon. To be clear, the majority of legitimate studies show that, at levels typically encountered in homes, as the radon concentrations go up, cancer rates go DOWN.


However, whether this is a statistical anomaly or not, I don’t care because either way, we are dealing with risks that are vanishingly small, and entirely insignificant, even if they are real.


So, as I sit here in my office in Bailey, Colorado, writing this post, I think of the poor souls in Denver where the cosmic radiation pours down some 2,000,000,000,000,000,000 high energy protons (each greater than one billion eVs) every second, and are receiving about 0.02 mrem every HOUR! Do I gasp at the fact that my office is at 9,000 feet elevation where my hourly dose may be as high as 0.04 mrem/hour? No. I don’t gasp – Indeed, later today, I will drive about 125 miles which will swamp the risk of NORMs in my environment. That’s risky. Indeed in my case, I also happen to be part-time police officer, and so later today I will don a ballistic vest, holster a gun and face the world as it presents itself to me. Should I worry about radon as I drive around in a marked patrol car? Probably not; currently I am much more concerned about the spider on the ceiling directly above me – now THAT’s frightening! But am I "safe"?


Perspective
Perspective
Perspective

Cheers!
Caoimhín P. Connell
AMDG

Radon: Truth vs. Myth - Home Energy Pros

 

[Mark Z]

Yes sensor there would make sense, however none of the actual owners confirmed existence of such sensor and there are other reports of FWd not stopping when person was in a way (by MarkZ IIRC).

I reported that the Falcon Wing Door STOPPED when I bumped into one of the seals. Please re-read post #7:

Safety Deal Breaker after Model X Test Drive

I have mentioned the sensors in other threads. The sensor might not see a post in the garage 100% of the time, but it sees me standing next to the outside of the car door.

When I was showing someone the Falcon Wing Door closing and pushed up on the door it as it came down, the system reversed and the Falcon Wing Door went to the full UP position.

Tesla has proximity sensors in the Falcon Wing Doors to "see" the objects or people in front of the door. In addition, there seems to be sensors in some of the seals, but I haven't thought it necessary to test the entire door seal area to determine what has a sensor and what doesn't.

 

[aaron0k]

I really wanted to love and get this Model X, but I can't pull the trigger….kinda sad but oh well...

I might have been dismissive of this topic (like some other commenters); had I not experienced something similar with my 4 year old daughter and a Volt.

I had the trunk open, she was in the back seat in her booster; for some reason she reached up to grab the hinged area to pull herself up... as I slammed the trunk...

She squealed and in a moment everything in me sunk as I realized what just happened... thinking I had just cut her fingers off...

Fortunately, the Volt has very thick rubber seals and a large enough gap, that while her fingers were 'stuck', they weren't harmed in anyway. I'm not sure if that was by 'design'. That moment still sticks with me to this day.

 

[goneskiian]

Funny guys. I'm going to assume you're all well aware that there are plenty of assistive devices and software available for all of the above & were just joking around.

Absolutely bonnie, and the only reason I felt comfortable with that attempt at humor.

 

[walla2]

Automatic doors existed before the X for elevators. Fingers and toes have been lost!

Deal breaker! It's 1910 elevators or the 2-100 flights of stairs from now on!

Seriously, though. We get you didn't like the doors but it probably shouldn't be the only reason.

 

[1208]

I was going to say hands up, for those who think its dangerous but perhaps a poll would be better.