Quality problems; "veteran members" tell us, how significant are they?

[lolachampcar]

On Tesla number five with over 50K total miles. My wife and I have had two problems, both with her car. The first was the "AC hard line vibrating on the steering column" problem early on. The tech came out to my hangar and fixed it in under 30 minutes while I was doing other things. The second was just recently when the right front started to click once or twice when turning the wheel to the right at low speed. I dropped it off in the AM and picked up a loaner (all of about seven minutes) and picked it back up that afternoon on my way back in from out West.

I've had tons of high end cars in the past and none have been this good on initial, first and second year quality. Add to it that there simply is no comparison when it comes to the service experience. Sure, all the staff is young and can be prone to making simple mistakes but I will gladly take that trade against dealing with an old hardened dealer veteran where I know I'm getting done even if I've not yet figured out how.

There have been some initial quality issues and end of quarter delivery push issues. Judging by the quarterly earnings calls, Tesla gets it as they are moving away from quarterly numbers and setting expectations based on rolling delivery rates.

That is my 2 cents worth.

Bill

 

[bonnie]

there simply is no comparison when it comes to the service experience. Sure, all the staff is young and can be prone to making simple mistakes but I will gladly take that trade against dealing with an old hardened dealer veteran where I know I'm getting done even if I've not yet figured out how.

Great analysis of the mistakes we've all seen made - intent is to improve, not screw the customer.

 

[MarkR]

As an early adopter, I fully expected to have some service issues. There were a couple of minor issues that were immediately addressed. On my second MS, I just noticed a whine at low speeds and the drive unit was replaced. I'm a happy customer who won't likely consider another car car until the Model 3 arrives.

 

[supratachophobia]

The tech came out to my hangar

This guy is great.

 

[breser]

So I've had two.

The first one I didn't keep for long or put very many miles on it. But the only significant issue I had was a loose piece of material on the steering wheel. Which they ordered a new steering wheel for and replaced. No arguing no debate, just fixed it. It was relatively minor, but I knew it was something that was going to nag at me so I said something. There were some relatively minor rattles that got handled when the car was in for the steering wheel as well. But missing out on Autopilot was too big of a deal to me and I traded the vehicle soon after and ordered my 85D.

My 85D is almost to 10k miles. It's had some rattles. The most significant one was in the pano roof. They knew exactly what it was and fixed it right away. It's had a clicking sound in the back seat that despite two attempts they just haven't been able to fix. I haven't bugged them about it because their efforts to eliminate it have certainly made it happen less often and only in harsher conditions and on the last trip in they weren't able to reproduce it. So I want to spend some time isolating it myself so I can more clearly tell them what to fix the next time. But the lack of a fix is not because of lack of serious effort on their part to resolve this.

The 85D however, has had the rear drive unit replaced on it. But this happened prior to my delivery. I had one of the first 85Ds destined for a customer. I would have had the first delivery had the drive unit issue came up and delayed delivery by a week. As it stands I ended up getting the 2nd delivery by a day. This issue turned out to be a torn gasket from the factory that allowed water into the motor. It was caught in pre-delivery testing due to sensor readings. The car apparently notified Tesla HQ about the problem as well as displaying errors because the SC told me they were investigating the issue when HQ called to ask that they do so. I've had zero problems with this since. Given the new nature of the 85D and the fact that they caught it before delivering it to me I don't think I can really hold this against them.

I've yet to have a vehicle by any manufacturer that doesn't have little issues like the rattles. But what I can say is I've yet to see a manufacturer that is so willing to fix them. Usually if they can't reproduce it they won't even really try to fix it. Tesla may not be able to reproduce it but they'll put some time into trying to resolve the issue. Each of the two times it's been in for rattles they've gone for a drive before and after with me. Everytime the car has come back better than when I dropped it off though ultimately the problem came back though not as bad.

In comparision, my Lexus had a rattle that I never did get rid of and Lexus wasn't really interested in figuring it out even when it was new. My F-150 had goop from the vapor barriers getting on the windows that they never managed to fix and I gave up and took the doors apart myself and fixed it. So if you're going to have problems with a vehicle, it seems that Tesla will at least take care of you well.

 

[Electricfan]

Coming to a Tesla forum and asking if you should buy a Tesla is like taking a kid to an ice cream shop and asking if they want ice cream.

+1

I'm not really absolutely certain what "+1" means, as I'm an old fart. But that's my first one. I hope it means something like "I could not have said it better myself". That's what we used to say before the internet. I know, old old old.

Update: ok now I've read all the posts. I would state for the record - drove one Model S from Sept 2013 to April 2015, 18k miles. I've never loved a car before. I traded my car in on a 2015 model I pick up next Thursday. I still feel sad that my old car hasn't called me. Never felt that way about a car before. I guess I'm saying get off the fence, you'll never regret it.

 

[supratachophobia]

I think the takeaway here is that there are some of us who have had a few problems, others that have had a ton of problems, and still others with nary a one. But service is great and the pros outweigh the cons. I just don't want someone going into the purchase and thinking it's all going to be all roses and superchargers.

+1

I'm not really absolutely certain what "+1" means, as I'm an old fart. But that's my first one. I hope it means something like "I could not have said it better myself". That's what we used to say before the internet. I know, old old old.

 

[lolachampcar]

not one rose for me but lots of SuperChargers and smiles

 

[chriSharek]

Cyclone and ChriSharek, it's interesting that you mention your being engineers. As I asked questions of the guys at the Tesla store, they asked if I were an engineer. They both agreed that a lot of Tesla enthusiasts and buyers are engineers. Makes sense, I suppose, that Tesla would appeal to engineering types.

Brucet999, you might not be formally one, but maybe in personality! My Dad should have been one, but isn't formally / by education. The simplicity of an electric motor and battery system is the most alluring thing to me about this car.

I will say though, before I jumped into the deep end (all electric) I've been driving my Volt for the past 4 years - with the gas back-up generator. All good engineers include a little redundancy in their designs!

- - - Updated - - -

+1

I'm not really absolutely certain what "+1" means, as I'm an old fart. But that's my first one. I hope it means something like "I could not have said it better myself". That's what we used to say before the internet. I know, old old old.

Update: ok now I've read all the posts. I would state for the record - drove one Model S from Sept 2013 to April 2015, 18k miles. I've never loved a car before. I traded my car in on a 2015 model I pick up next Thursday. I still feel sad that my old car hasn't called me. Never felt that way about a car before. I guess I'm saying get off the fence, you'll never regret it.

So, did you get your new car!? Pix!?

 

[Korben]

+1
I'm not really absolutely certain what "+1" means, as I'm an old fart. But that's my first one. I hope it means something like "I could not have said it better myself". That's what we used to say before the internet. I know, old old old.

+1 is used by programmers to increment an integer variable by one.

Your usage was fine. You said that you agree and support the expressed opinion or idea.

 

[CharlesJR]

I spent over a year looking at Tesla for my next car. A dealer in CA (I live in MD) told me that Tesla would be testing the powertrain for the Model X in the Model S in 2015 so I waited.

Sure enough the P85D was released and this was what I was waiting for. Honestly though I shopped it with the BMW i8 and if that car had not had a one year wait AND every BMW dealership I went into wanted at least $50,000 over MSRP (sometime more) I would have probably purchased it ... and seriously regretted it now that I'm in my Tesla.

I came from a 2006 Jaguar Portfolio sedan. Supercharged V8. Four point seating (like Tesla's new executive seating) and every feature that Jaguar could put in a car then. The company only made about 140 of them and every one was hand built to test their new aluminum body structure. They cost about $150,000 new.

I say this because I want to be VERY clear about my first two month's experience on Tesla when it comes to quality control. The Jaguar, while coming from a company owed by Ford at the time, was an expensive, hand built, aluminum body car. One that was used as a test bed for construction of the 2007 XJ sedans. My Tesla is fully loaded ... I checked off every box ... so the price was similar to the Jaguar. Its aluminum bodied and has four place seats (executive seating).

The quality of the two cars aren't even close. The Tesla has misaligned body panels, trim pieces, several chips already in the paint and several latches have already broken and/or cracked and the rear seat passengers are all but ignored. No separate HVAC controls except heated seats that they can't even control ... no power points for electronics (like a 12V power supply or USB port) and no way to adjust their seats. The Jaguar was a luxury car. One that absolutely coddled and took care of every passenger, no matter where they sat in the car. It was ridiculously fast for such a heavy car and had every comfort a car in this price range should have. And in the entire time I owned the car (from 2006 until two months ago) I never had any challenges with parts, trim or powertrains. Just normal service.

That being said, I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE the Tesla. While the Jaguar (and we also own Land Rovers) was a true "British Luxury" car, the Tesla is more refined luxury. Someone once said it was very feng shui and I would have to agree. Meaning every line in the car has a purpose. Every design leads to something useful. The car gets out of the way and lets you enjoy the drive. For the price, I would have loved to see better attention paid the details HOWEVER I purchased it knowing full well it was a low volume car and these things would be evident. It kind of reminds me of where Ferrari was ten years ago or so: expensive and low volume with the challenges that came with that. Over time they figured out how to overcome and Tesla will do the same.

Musk has said they implement about twenty changes A WEEK in the design of the car. So literally every car that comes off the line is slightly better than the previous. This car is literally a JOY to drive. I find reasons to run errands ... heck it reminds me of riding my motorcycle ... I constantly look for reasons to get out in it.

I will happily purchase another.

NOTE: as to servicing, I live in MD and there is only one service center. So far it hasn't been an issue and all broken latches have been replaced on site for me. There are several owners in my town and none have every had anything other than minor issues: all taken care of immediately. The team here is incredible and has made the initial series of questions simple to answer.

Again, remember I looked into this car for almost a year and a half before purchasing. It "fit" my life and business. I'm extremely pleased with the Tesla in ways I never imagined.

CharlesJR

 

[Cyclone]

I will say though, before I jumped into the deep end (all electric) I've been driving my Volt for the past 4 years - with the gas back-up generator. All good engineers include a little redundancy in their designs!

This is my redundancy for the time being...

 

[chriSharek]

This is my redundancy for the time being...

I call that a "hybrid garage" Cyclone! My wife will keep her Jeep Rubicon, my son gets the Volt, and me the MS. Diversity is the spice of life!

 

[Alexander]

And body work in general (not related to reliability but to TCO) is extremely expensive, Tesla's partners (authorized body shops) are very expensive.

I think the cost of body repairs vary widely on location and experience. Here in LA the costs are comparable - if not down right cheaper - then that of any other car.

I was in an accident a few months ago and the the cost to replace my rear bumper, front bumper, rear diffuser, rear under shield, front spoiler, paint, as well as a few little touch ups was only $2,973.86. That was at a Tesla certified shop here in LA.

When they quoted me the repairs they even took me around the shop and proudly showed off the seven other Tesla's they were currently working on (or about to start work on). They showed me this one (see bellow) that had hit a center divider on the freeway. They said the repairs for that one was just under $20,000:

So I think the cost of body work just depends on the location and the experience of the shop you take it to. This shop told me Tesla repairs tend to be cheaper because the most expensive components are protected within the core of the car (battery, drive unit, etc).

 

[Electricfan]

So, did you get your new car!? Pix!?

I pick it up one week from yesterday! Cannot wait! I will definitely post some pictures in the delivery thread. http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...-stories-photos-and-first-impressions/page146

How did it go getting the ticket corrected so the wrong guy doesn't wake up and find he's got a ticket on his record?

 

[bmah]

+1 is used by programmers to increment an integer variable by one.

Your usage was fine. You said that you agree and support the expressed opinion or idea.

Well, kinda sorta. My experience with "+1" and "-1" with respect to statements comes from here:

Apache Voting Process

(Why yes I am a software engineer, why do you ask?)

That said I agree that Electricfan's use was appropriate.

 

[qwk]

My car has had a few problems since new, or near new that haven't been permanently fixed. Some of these are on the 3rd and 4th go around. They are definately very nice, and used to bring a model a loaner out(350 miles from SC), but fail to fix the issues. These are issues that new cars don't have, so obviously these are not difficult fixes. They just seem to patch stuff, and work on things that aren't broken. The last time the car was in for service(1 week), it came back with a non functioning A/C. When the ranger came, he found the low pressure sensor disconnected with the male end wrapped in electrical tape. Not something one would expect on cars in this price range. The car cannot hold an alignment for more than a few hundred miles(relatively smooth roads), and the answer I get is that BMW cars do the same thing. With that reasoning, Yugo's break down all the time so it's ok for ______ brand to break down also.

The car is pretty awesome compared to ICE cars, but if one lives far from an SC, ther is a very strong possibility that the headaches might outweigh the rewards. My car is going to picked up tomorrow(I have to meet at an Enterprise location 100 miles RT away), and a different SC is going to attempt to fix these issues. I'm not looking forward to driving an Enterprise junker for the next 2-4 weeks, especially because the realist in me knows that the odds of these issues being permanently taken care of are slim to none.

So as you can see, it's all relative. To some Tesla has great service, to me it's mediocre.

 

[chriSharek]

How did it go getting the ticket corrected so the wrong guy doesn't wake up and find he's got a ticket on his record?

I took care of it earlier this week. A mess. The cop was very apologetic. Actually dropped off the ticket at my mailbox! I took care of the $10 fine earlier this week and since their credit card system wasn't working, i had to use an ATM and pay an additional $3 for the convenience. I took my son (15) with me so he could see the real "costs" associated with this . . . my time! All good. cs

 

[DruLaurence]

My dad has a 2014 MS 85. I am looking at getting a CPO'd MS P85. The one I really like at the moment is a 2012 P85S and has around 14K miles on it. He was telling me about possible issues in early models. Should I be scared of this particular car given it has a VIN number in the hundreds? Should I be looking at a newer CPO?

 

[mkspeedr]

We have 3 P85D (2014 and (2)2015) in my family. All three have been awesome. The next gen seats were swapped out of the 2014 after 6 months but everything has been great. I like the comment from CharlesJR - Tesla is like Ferrari was 15 years ago (1999 355 Ferrari had more issues) - expensive - low volume. All 3 Teslas are better than the 355 was...