Poll on battery size.

[W.Petefish]

Or as in here where it is hot as blazes and everyone else is dripping sweat.
Or here when it is just about to hail and the wind is picking up.

Either way, electric wins.

 

[Mycroft]

Just wait 'till the radical Tesla supporters get their hands on an S. I can just imagine what the YouTube "commercials" will be like!

See headline in paper (iPad?) as soccer mom or dad sip their morning coffee. The headline mentions gas shortage and lines. They head to the garage, unplug the car and the next scene is driving by a long line at the gas station and then onto an empty Interstate.

 

[JRP3]

Buying a 300 mile pack means more cells sold means more demand = more development to better batteries.

[Petersen]Wasteful use of scarce resources for eco bling bragging rights[/Petersen] :wink:

 

[AnOutsider]

The only place I can think of offhand that the ad wouldn't work in is NJ. I miss that state only for the fact that it was LAW that someone pumped your gas for you.

 

[W.Petefish]

Then you'd have Archie with his wallet. :biggrin:

One...Two...Three, keep the change sonny.

 

[Thumper]

Oregon also has the no self-pump law. I must admit I now prefer it. The price never seems higher. I don't think the labor savings is usually passed to the customer anyway.

 

[ckessel]

This seemed about as close the right thread I could find. I'm trying to figure out my costs to charge the Model S. My electric company charges 4.422 cents per kwh for night usage. The 300 mile battery is 90 kwh, so I assume 90 * 4.422 ~= $4? If I assume 75% of 300 for actual range due to losses at freeway speed, then 225 miles for $4?

 

[Doug_G]

This seemed about as close the right thread I could find. I'm trying to figure out my costs to charge the Model S. My electric company charges 4.422 cents per kwh for night usage. The 300 mile battery is 90 kwh, so I assume 90 * 4.422 ~= $4? If I assume 75% of 300 for actual range due to losses at freeway speed, then 225 miles for $4?

Check your power bill, and make sure there aren't any additional charges - there often are.

Here in Ontario electricity is 7.5 cents per kwh, but there are also delivery charges, a regulatory charge, a debt retirement charge, and sales taxes, for a grand total of 13.4 cents per kwh. (Yes, it's horrible - Quebec charges half that.) It will cost me about $12 to fill the pack.

 

[zack]

I'd buy a 1000 mile pack if I could.

 

[AnOutsider]

This seemed about as close the right thread I could find. I'm trying to figure out my costs to charge the Model S. My electric company charges 4.422 cents per kwh for night usage. The 300 mile battery is 90 kwh, so I assume 90 * 4.422 ~= $4? If I assume 75% of 300 for actual range due to losses at freeway speed, then 225 miles for $4?

I was going to say "wow that's $160/month" but you wouldn't be filling up from empty every night. If you fill up once per week that's $16/month which would be less than a gas's fill up. Heck, even twice per week would be cheaper than a single fill up for many cars.


Sent from my T7575 using Board Express

 

[ckessel]

I was going to say "wow that's $160/month" but you wouldn't be filling up from empty every night.

Heh , yea, I was just trying to essentially figure out cost per mile and running numbers on filling the pack seemed the easiest way to derive it.

PGE (not PG&E) doesn't have a lot of other charges, so I think 4.422 cents/kwh is going to be about right. If I figure an ICE at 25 mpg and an average of $4/gallon of gas over 100,000 miles, that's a savings of $14,000ish. Of course, that's filled with all sorts of assumptions about the difference in long term gas prices vs. long term energy prices, though I suspect the long term trends would make the savings better rather than worse.

 

[richkae]

Gasoline has been increasing at an average of 9% per year over the last 10 years. My electricity prices have been going up about 4% per year for the last 10 years.
If you start at $3.50 per gallon today, and you assume 12500 miles per year for your 100,000 miles ( 8 years ), and you assume a constant 9% per year the average gas cost over those 8 years is $5.24
If you are comparing to a sports sedan, most likely should add .30 for premium gas.

 

[Larry Chanin]

Heh , yea, I was just trying to essentially figure out cost per mile and running numbers on filling the pack seemed the easiest way to derive it.

PGE (not PG&E) doesn't have a lot of other charges, so I think 4.422 cents/kwh is going to be about right. If I figure an ICE at 25 mpg and an average of $4/gallon of gas over 100,000 miles, that's a savings of $14,000ish. Of course, that's filled with all sorts of assumptions about the difference in long term gas prices vs. long term energy prices, though I suspect the long term trends would make the savings better rather than worse.

Hi,

Another major variable is the speed you were traveling during those 100,000 miles. Using the Roadster data as an indicator you would have to be traveling at 70 mph for all those miles to derate the range from 300 to 225 miles. Traveling at 40 mph the range would be increased to about 390 miles. Since the range vs. speed data is non-linear we can't use a simple average speed to estimate the average range. Nevertheless, for many of us our weighted average speed would be closer to 40 mph than to 70 mph, so the economic benefits could be greater than your figures.

Larry

 

[neroden]

Oregon also has the no self-pump law. I must admit I now prefer it. The price never seems higher. I don't think the labor savings is usually passed to the customer anyway.

I think you're right, since where I live it's legal to pump gas yourself.... but the cheapest gas in town is often at the only full-service gas station. (I'm not sure how any of the others stay in business, now that I think about it...)

 

[neroden]

I entirely agree with you. There will always be those willing to spend more for the added convenience, even if it's borderline irrational. But I figured that would account for a fair amount of people leaning towards the 300 mile battery option, not a majority. That's what I find surprising.

Have you factored in the fact that 300-mile models get released first?

Most of us are early adopters here, and I suspect a lot of us are eager to get our electric car ASAP -- I sure am! I was going to get the 230 (I really don't need more than that), but it wasn't worth the delay. The time value of getting it sooner turned out to be worth a lot to me. Anyone else?

 

[neroden]

I think you're making this into a bigger problem than it needs to be. RV parks will be able to supply the charge you need. There is always an RV park.

Yep. But for a trip from Ithaca to Columbus, Ohio (not an arbitrary choice), think about how long it will take. It can be done comfortably in one day in an ICE. In order to do it in one day in a BEV, you really want a fast charger in the middle. Doing it entirely from L2 requires at least 9 hours of en-route charging, making it a very long day... or a two day trip. How do you arrange an overnight at an RV park? You have to have a well located RV park....

Honestly, until the L3 charger is available, I'd probably just use an ICE for the trip to Columbus. But it got me to thinking what L3s are good for. This is what L3s are good for.

Other EV owners in those other locations can help.

Yes! And I was hoping to be one, but it's not clear what I should install. Given the lack of information from Tesla, I may just install NEMA 14-50s.

There is a NY area Tesla owners club on fb, that might be a good place to start looking at options.

Will look. I'll see how many of them are upstate.

And not sure why you're worried about the charging interface ... chargers have been upgraded before, but it's a safe bet that J1772 will be the interface in your area. Adapters are always an option if chargers are no longer compatible.

As a Model S driver, I'm not pushing to install a J1772 EVSE unless it's better than a NEMA 14-50. Which in most cases, apparently, they aren't, apart from coming with a meter. It's startling how many EVSEs are very expensive devices which provide very low wattage. It's almost certainly going to be cheaper to get an electrician to wire in a NEMA 14-50, since it's a pretty common standard (thank you RV parks!)

I'm thinking someone at Tesla is thinking the same way, based on the defaults which are apparently shipping with the Model S.

 

[WhiteKnight]

I was under the impression that Level 3 chargers required 3-phase power. I called Georgia Power here in Atlanta and they said only commercial locations can get 3-phase power. So 240W / Level 2 is as high as I can go at my house.

 

[JRP3]

Not sure why you'd want Level 3 at your home but you could do it with a large bank of batteries that are slowly charged and then dump charge the car when you need it. Plus you'd have a large back up power bank for power outages.

 

[VolkerP]

Not sure why you'd want Level 3 at your home but you could do it with a large bank of batteries that are slowly charged and then dump charge the car when you need it. Plus you'd have a large back up power bank for power outages.

while this is technically feasible, it doesn't make sense in a financial way. Because you need LOTS of batteries and very powerful electronics. With the Model S supporting fast DC charging and no AC charging above 20kW, Tesla owners in North America cannot help other owners in fast charging at their home. They are limited to the power output of the UMC 2.0.

Tesla owners can gather to fund some fast DC chargers in a highway station, though.

 

[richkae]

A quick google search shows 100kWHr of lead acid can be bought retail for $15k USD. I wonder what kind of control electronics you would need to DC fast charge, given that you already have DC from the batteries.