Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

[Walta]

A couple of thoughts for those who don't like to read my long posts...

How many folk would consider themselves "made whole" if Tesla returned things to pre-8.0 but with the warning instead and the promise of extended warantee after their 8 years is up if your Counters were below certain limits? On the understanding that they were clear about how to trigger the counters and display them in the dash...

I wonder if resale values of Teslas would be higher if their firmware was frozen preCounterG8.0 ?

Paul..

Well - I have given this a lot of thought. What would need to happen to feel like Tesla compensated my ludicrous mode fiasco... would be to refund the $10K and remove the ludicrous mode option ( which I think is just a software change ) . That would leave me with an insane mode car - that would not be subject to the quirky new LM requirement for max power. Might not even require MBR for any additional power increase? I am not sure about that... does anyone know? I would also assume it is not going to trigger any of the battery counters. Though that is another assumption. If all that is true - that would seem fair - along with a free extended warranty to make up for the time and stress of dealing with all the BS. Just sayin...

What is the performance of a P90D insane ? Are P90D insane owners being treated fairly?

 

[Walta]

Well - I have given this a lot of thought. What would need to happen to feel like Tesla compensated my ludicrous mode fiasco... would be to refund the $10K and remove the ludicrous mode option ( which I think is just a software change ) . That would leave me with an insane mode car - that would not be subject to the quirky new LM requirement for max power. Might not even require MBR for any additional power increase? I am not sure about that... does anyone know? I would also assume it is not going to trigger any of the battery counters. Though that is another assumption. If all that is true - that would seem fair - along with a free extended warranty to make up for the time and stress of dealing with all the BS. Just sayin...

What is the performance of a P90D insane ? Are P90D insane owners being treated fairly?

I see @TIppy already provided the P90D insane 0-60 time, as well as max power. Those numbers are good enough to dust a majority of combatants.

TIppy said: ↑
After more testing:
P90DL launch: 503 kw, 2.6 sec 0 to 60--this power is less than pre counter-gate
P90DL non-launch: 487 kw, 2.7 sec
P90D insane: 420 kw, 3.1 sec
P90DL sport: 390 kw, 3.7 sec

 

[n2mb_racing]

Well - I have given this a lot of thought. What would need to happen to feel like Tesla compensated my ludicrous mode fiasco... would be to refund the $10K and remove the ludicrous mode option ( which I think is just a software change ) . That would leave me with an insane mode car - that would not be subject to the quirky new LM requirement for max power. Might not even require MBR for any additional power increase? I am not sure about that... does anyone know? I would also assume it is not going to trigger any of the battery counters. Though that is another assumption. If all that is true - that would seem fair - along with a free extended warranty to make up for the time and stress of dealing with all the BS. Just sayin...

What is the performance of a P90D insane ? Are P90D insane owners being treated fairly?

Hmm. I don't think that would work for me since I'm leasing. The extra $10k of the purchase price wouldn't change my lease payments much, I assume. I'd rather keep my payment and just get back the power the car originally had.

 

[Walta]

Hmm. I don't think that would work for me since I'm leasing. The extra $10k of the purchase price wouldn't change my lease payments much, I assume. I'd rather keep my payment and just get back the power the car originally had.

I hear ya... If I really could get what I want, I too would want them to give me the 10 second car back for my daily driving, minus the MBR 35 minute wait requirement. So I would only need to flip it into ludicrous mode. You know - like they sold me in the first place. And I wouldn't be damaging the battery - again - like they sold me in the first place.
Never thought of it from a leasing point of view. Maybe request a lower monthly price - equal to a P90D insane? And retroactively refund you the amount you overpaid up till now?

 

[azdryheat]

Started a new thread on the investigation of Tesla and the Ludicrous fiasco.

See:Arizona Atty General investigating Ludicrous changes

 

[jeffro01]

No, at this point I have not signed anything. In the hopes that this is somehow resolved, I have decided not to release where we were in the settlement process.
Unfortunately, I have been in small claims court and civil court. In every case I have been happy with the results, but an insurance issue took 7 years in court. Sometimes it is better to say less.
I wanted to let owners know that everyone is not sitting down and accepting this. There are other people who are close to, or have started trying to get this resolved from Tesla. If I feel I can release any more information, I will. At this point we will wait and see what the AZ Atty General says. Used them before and the response was very fast.

Wait so you had something worked out that was satisfactory to you but because Tesla made a perfectly reasonable NDA request, something that virtually ALL companies do in this situation, you rejected it in favor of wanting to extort more?

I have been pretty hard on Tesla lately, scathing if you will, and have questioned my own passion for the brand and the mission more times than I care to count... I'm still on the fence as to whether or not we'll buy another Tesla again... Yet... When I'm confronted with situations like these where people like you behave in a completely irrational way I can't help but saying something about it...

I find it absurd that you'd run to your states attorney generals office because Tesla had the audacity to request an NDA from you in exchange for what seems like a satisfactory resolution to the issue... What exactly is your issue? That you can't parade around about your "victory"? Yeah... That's a little harsh but come on... What's more stunning to me are the approvals your post received... Apparently you're not the only extortionist here...

Jeff

 

[azdryheat]

Wait so you had something worked out that was satisfactory to you but because Tesla made a perfectly reasonable NDA request, something that virtually ALL companies do in this situation, you rejected it in favor of wanting to extort more?

I have been pretty hard on Tesla lately, scathing if you will, and have questioned my own passion for the brand and the mission more times than I care to count... I'm still on the fence as to whether or not we'll buy another Tesla again... Yet... When I'm confronted with situations like these where people like you behave in a completely irrational way I can't help but saying something about it...

I find it absurd that you'd run to your states attorney generals office because Tesla had the audacity to request an NDA from you in exchange for what seems like a satisfactory resolution to the issue... What exactly is your issue? That you can't parade around about your "victory"? Yeah... That's a little harsh but come on... What's more stunning to me are the approvals your post received... Apparently you're not the only extortionist here...

Jeff

The agreement we had (IMO) was a no win, even result for both parties. When they added the NDA, I was not comfortable knowing that other Tesla owners would be left out. Also, I viewed this as Tesla actually getting more than I did. Tesla needs to be up front and honest. The route I am going will get me less compensation than what they agreed to. It's more than money, it's integrity, honesty, and standing by your word.

 

[Pantoot]

I find it absurd that you'd run to your states attorney generals office because Tesla had the audacity to request an NDA from you in exchange for what seems like a satisfactory resolution to the issue... What exactly is your issue? That you can't parade around about your "victory"? Yeah... That's a little harsh but come on... What's more stunning to me are the approvals your post received... Apparently you're not the only extortionist here...
Jeff

It could be about extortion or any of the other shady other motives that you might consider, but as an owner of a V2 ludicrous in AZ, I appreciate that he didn't "take the money and run", and allow others like myself to be swept under the rug.

 

[Walta]

The agreement we had (IMO) was a no win, even result for both parties. When they added the NDA, I was not comfortable knowing that other Tesla owners would be left out. Also, I viewed this as Tesla actually getting more than I did. Tesla needs to be up front and honest. The route I am going will get me less compensation than what they agreed to. It's more than money, it's integrity, honesty, and standing by your word.

Thanks for your efforts!

So far it has been proven that Tesla is not acting in an ethical manner. If not for people like you, and the efforts of others in this forum, Tesla will just continue to execute unfair business practices.

 

[jeffro01]

The agreement we had (IMO) was a no win, even result for both parties. When they added the NDA, I was not comfortable knowing that other Tesla owners would be left out. Also, I viewed this as Tesla actually getting more than I did. Tesla needs to be up front and honest. The route I am going will get me less compensation than what they agreed to. It's more than money, it's integrity, honesty, and standing by your word.

So now it's about "integrity, honesty, and standing by your word"? If your original agreement was truly a no win for both parties then that would seem like the perfect kind of agreement if you believe in the whimsical definition of what constitutes a good agreement...

I find it awfully altruistic of you to champion the cause for everyone else... So much so that I have to question your real motive here which I'm not going to further speculate about since I clearly don't have nearly enough details to do so...

Jeff

 

[jeffro01]

Thanks for your efforts!

So far it has been proven that Tesla is not acting in an ethical manner. If not for people like you, and the efforts of others in this forum, Tesla will just continue to execute unfair business practices.

That's BS... Pure and simple BS... I don't want to defend Tesla here but I will...

Man some people here have really fallen off of the deep end as of late... What's sort of ironic about this is all the discussions "way back when" we used to have about what would happen once Tesla grew to a certain size and the types of owners it would attract along the way...

Tesla has always had a communication problem, always. Why? I wish we knew, I wish I knew, as it doesn't seem like it should be this difficult to communicate with your customers as to what you are doing and why. This is no different in that Tesla's complete lack of communication certainly made it very easy to assume the worst intentions. Then the way they responded by, and this is my understanding so my apologies if I'm wrong, limiting everyones power equally seems just as questionable as the original action...

However the question remains and I believe was answered a few posts up, does the car meet the advertised specifications with the currently available software and my understand is that it does. If my understanding is correct, what exactly is the problem here? Yes, I realize the communication failures have left a few here more than salty about how it went down but if the car is hitting the advertised specs then...???

Someone tell me what I'm missing here...

Jeff

 

[St Charles]

So now it's about "integrity, honesty, and standing by your word"? If your original agreement was truly a no win for both parties then that would seem like the perfect kind of agreement if you believe in the whimsical definition of what constitutes a good agreement...

I find it awfully altruistic of you to champion the cause for everyone else... So much so that I have to question your real motive here which I'm not going to further speculate about since I clearly don't have nearly enough details to do so...

Jeff

Yet here you are...

People have been talking about legal action for a large portion of this thread. No one but @azdryheat knows his specific situation. To criticize his decisions without knowing all the facts is premature.

 

[Walta]

So now it's about "integrity, honesty, and standing by your word"? If your original agreement was truly a no win for both parties then that would seem like the perfect kind of agreement if you believe in the whimsical definition of what constitutes a good agreement...

I find it awfully altruistic of you to champion the cause for everyone else... So much so that I have to question your real motive here which I'm not going to further speculate about since I clearly don't have nearly enough details to do so...

Jeff

Yeah! Wise up @azdryheat !!! Stop being such a team player !!!

Too funny. It's like the husband who in a moment of emotion - stops to get a dozen roses for his sweet wife on his way home. Then on handing them to the wife she responds with "What's this for ? Did you cheat on me?!!!!" .

 

[jeffro01]

Yeah! Wise up @azdryheat !!! Stop being such a team player !!!

Too funny. It's like the husband who in a moment of emotion - stops to get a dozen roses for his sweet wife on his way home. Then on handing them to the wife she responds with "What's this for ? Did you cheat on me?!!!!" .

I see you're a fan of straw man arguments...

Jeff

 

[azdryheat]

So now it's about "integrity, honesty, and standing by your word"? If your original agreement was truly a no win for both parties then that would seem like the perfect kind of agreement if you believe in the whimsical definition of what constitutes a good agreement...

I find it awfully altruistic of you to champion the cause for everyone else... So much so that I have to question your real motive here which I'm not going to further speculate about since I clearly don't have nearly enough details to do so...

Jeff

If Tesla will agree to reinstate the Ludicrous Mode that I purchased in August 2016 for ALL cars, I will withdraw my complaint to the AG. No money needed. Simple solution and buys the goodwill of Tesla owners.

 

[Walta]

If Tesla will agree to reinstate the Ludicrous Mode that I purchased in August 2016 for ALL cars, I will withdraw my complaint to the AG. No money needed. Simple solution and buys the goodwill of Tesla owners.

That raises an interesting point about the version of ludicrous mode the car had at time of purchase. Now that ludicrous mode has been out there since around July-Aug ish 2015 - there have been a few iterations of how it was implemented. I would say that at the time the owner orders the car - the owners manual at that time should detail what it is you are buying. In my case - that was the early design which only required you to select ludicrous mode. When dealing with Tesla in arguing a case, it would be most helpful to show Tesla (via the owners manual) the version of ludicrous mode you purchased. Problem with that is - in my case - Tesla updated my 2015 Owner manual in the MyTesla account to the newer 8.0 version. They also update the Owners manual in the car via over the air updates. I can see Tesla having the right to modify the owners manual in my car - but not the one in the MyTesla account. So when I asked them for the 2015 version - they would not give it to me. Another example of Tesla re-writing history to better their position on warranty issues. Which Tesla did earlier by adding extra wording relating to aggressive driving.
So don't forget to download your original owners manual - and save it. Hopefully its not too late.

 

[azdryheat]

That raises an interesting point about the version of ludicrous mode the car had at time of purchase. Now that ludicrous mode has been out there since around July-Aug ish 2015 - there have been a few iterations of how it was implemented. I would say that at the time the owner orders the car - the owners manual at that time should detail what it is you are buying. In my case - that was the early design which only required you to select ludicrous mode. When dealing with Tesla in arguing a case, it would be most helpful to show Tesla (via the owners manual) the version of ludicrous mode you purchased. Problem with that is - in my case - Tesla updated my 2015 Owner manual in the MyTesla account to the newer 8.0 version. They also update the Owners manual in the car via over the air updates. I can see Tesla having the right to modify the owners manual in my car - but not the one in the MyTesla account. So when I asked them for the 2015 version - they would not give it to me. Another example of Tesla re-writing history to better their position on warranty issues. Which Tesla did earlier by adding extra wording relating to aggressive driving.
So don't forget to download your original owners manual - and save it. Hopefully its not too late.

Fortunately, I downloaded a copy just before I got the car. Maybe someone has a copy for you.

 

[Walta]

Fortunately, I downloaded a copy just before I got the car. Maybe someone has a copy for you.

A TMC member did get me an owners manual very close to the aug-sept 2015 time frame. I am using that version for my reference at the moment. It is frustrating that Tesla is unwilling to provide the exact version matching my car purchased in Aug 2015. It is most likely the first owners manual that references ludicrous mode.

 

[TIppy]

I find it interesting that motor trend reported on February 7, 2017 that the P100D with ludicrous+ could do a 2.28s 0 to 60 mph, yet their advertised spec is still 2.5 seconds. Could it be that they think some hokey, boost the power, heat the battery, cool the motor, launch mode only spec isn't a real spec? Or maybe they know you'll only be able to do it a few times before they disable it and didn't want to over promise on specs only to reduce them later. Good thing they didn't charge extra for it.

 

[NSX1992]

I went to the 1/8 mile dragstrip at Irwindale again to test if my P85DL has had any reduction in power. With almost 32,000 miles and original 19" tires, my "Heartbeat" was as fast as ever. My 6 runs were from 7.081 to 7.133 and from 97% down to 86% compared to my all-time best of 7.066. Plus my reaction times using slip mode on every run were good including a 0.007 against another Tesla. One change that worked for me was to do a quick burnout (accelerate quickly) which did spin the tires briefly but resulted with no tires spinning after the lights were green.