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Vendor CAC is King

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Recell

Member
Global Vendor
May 22, 2022
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Austin
Invariably when discussion turns to a failing battery pack, the topic of module swapping comes up, so we thought it would be a good time to talk about CAC - Calculated Average Capacity - and why it's important.

In fact, if your talking to a shop about pack replacement/repair and they’re unable to provide you with the CAC for each and every brick in your pack, chances are your car will be back on a lift in the next 12 months, possibly sooner...

Measured in Amp hours (Ah), CAC is the single most important measure of your pack’s health. There can of course be a number of factors that may cause a pack to fail, but a well-balanced pack, even an older one, with a capacity delta less than 2% across each of the modules will continue to deliver years of safe, reliable power.

On the other hand, a poorly balanced pack will begin to exhibit less and less range, until finally it begins to fail and trigger a BMS_u018 alert, or stops working altogether. A poorly balanced pack is the result of one or more bricks in the pack deliverying less energy capacity than the others in the rest of the pack.

Take a look at the two screenshots below. It’s actually a textbook example of an otherwise healthy pack with a failing module. Brick 85 (located in Module #15) has begun to fail and is only able to deliver 207 Ah of energy, while the rest of the pack is delivering 218 Ah or more.

418955406_122136697268076580_8744089744172265620_n.jpg


418932500_122136697250076580_5669841357266050038_n.jpg


The result is a voltage imbalance in the pack that will accelerate the failure - continuing to charge weakened/imbalanced cells to 90% or more (while the rest of the pack sits comfortably at 80% SoC or less) simply accelerates their degradation relative to the rest of the pack and increases potential for overheating. none of these are ever good for a battery pack.

This is why capacity matching is so critical. Modules need to be balanced within 2%, or less! And if you can’t measure CAC at the brick level, then all bets are off, you're flying absolutely blind.

In fact, capacity matching is such an exacting requirement that Tesla, even with enormous pools of modules to choose from, no longer swaps modules in it’s reman packs - instead they convert them to a 350V 14-module pack. (full disclosure: Recell does the same). As a further datapoint, the longest we’ve seen a first generation Tesla reman last is about 30 months, most that we see last around 24 months. Of course, there may be others out there ("I have a friend whose cousin..."), but that’s consistently the longevity we, and others, have seen when it comes to module swapping. And if you can’t measure brick-level CAC, then it’s just like throwing darts at the wall.

So, will swapping in a new module get your Tesla back on the road? Sure, maybe, for a while. But as we always say, keeping it on the road is the hard part. ;)

Remember CAC is King. 👍
 
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and just for some additional background on what we do at Recell: all our packs are balanced and certified to within 2%, and often within 1%. That’s our standard for pack certification.

Case in point, by removing the failed module in the pack shown above and converting it to a 350V 14-module pack, we’re able to deliver a pack balanced to within 2Ah across 84 modules, a CAC delta of less than 1%.

Statistically, that’s within 2 standard deviations - and 99.7% of all data samples in normal distribution should lie within 3 standard deviations of the mean - which is all geek-speak to say that our packs have great balance and longevity. :D 👍
 
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here’s another textbook example of a CAC imbalance that we had in just the other day.

1705721768990.png


As you can see, the pack is 8.2 Ah out of balance and the voltage delta of 100 mV is floating in and out of the ‘red zone’ - throwing a BMS_u018 as the pack is discharged and then clearing as the pack is charged back up through the 50% mark. (here for example, the BMS isn’t throwing a BMS_u018 at this exact moment, but the car had begun to experience a loss in range over the past month or so and periodic alerts, so the owner brought it in)

Underlines again how 8-10 Ah imbalance is that cut-off before the pack goes into a totally unrecoverable state.

textbook.
 
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what's surprising to us is how few shops understand the actual fundamentals behind pack balance and module capacity. sometimes you'll see posts from otherwise reliable sources suggesting that all you need to do to swap and balance a module is a digital voltmeter - just match the voltages and you’re good to go… o_O that is absolutely NOT the case.

rather than beat on that further, here’s how it works: all lithium cells, both strong and weak, will operate within a range roughly between 3.2-4.2 volts. the difference between the two however is how much energy they can store. a weak cell with degraded capacity will charge and discharge, cycling through that voltage range faster than a cell that has more capacity. that’s literally the definition of energy capacity. if you have two cells charged with the same current (ie amps), the one with more energy capacity will take longer (ie. hours) to reach full charge. that’s how we get amp hours as a measure of energy capacity.

it’s somewhat counter intuitive, but that’s why the weaker cells in a pack will exhibit the highest voltages when fully charged, and the lowest voltages when fully discharged. normally we’re inclined to think high should be good, but it’s actually the opposite on the top end of the charge curve. it’s also why a BMS_u018 pack imbalance alert will trigger when the charge level is low, the voltage on the weaker cells really begin to plummet on the bottom end of the charge curve.

(note: a BMS_u018 may seemingly go away when the pack is recharged and the voltage delta tightens up as those weaker cells zoom up the charge curve, but it’s still a clear sign that one of the modules is failing. unfortunately, as the capacity continues to degrade, the error will become permanent)
 
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Thanks for sharing your info and findings. Time will tell and at this point, I'm not sure sure if there's anyone other than Tesla that has a much empirical data with failed battery packs and matching modules as you do. I don't expect for you to share this information, but I'd be curious to know how many packs have you had that "failed" or significantly dropped range after you certified and installed them for customers. I've only seen one unhappy customer of yours who complained about about 12V issue that didn't seem related at all to the HV service you provided.
 
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To date, we haven't had any of our RC series packs fail from capacity issues. isolation faults (2) are for sure the trickiest to guard against and we've had one unexplained failure related to a phantom misread from the current shunt (super rare and nothing you can guard against there. pack came back in fully operational and we actually believe it was an issue with BMS board since we couldn't reproduce the error post-board swap, but still sent out a new replacement). but to date, capacity issues have not be a problem.

And this follows from the methodology, right? By removing the two weakest modules from the pack you really do manage to prune out any defects - manufacturing defects, batch issues, etc. And remember, it's really a game of lifeboat, the second 'worst' module is more often than not perfectly within spec, but someone else has to be kicked out of the boat... so by eliminating >10% of the cells and leaving behind only the absolute top performing cells, you actually manage to really tighten up that distribution, typically within 2 standard deviations and 1%. 👍

(the Central Limit Theorem in statistics tells us that a normal distribution should spread across 3 Standard Deviations from the Mean, so pulling it into to within 2 is really tight)
 
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Talking of CAC is king is there a list with brand-new CAC values for the usual Tesla packs (could be simply calculated from ideal values?)
+some well-known "good" values per usage?
e.g. like 10-20% capacity degeneration after first 100k kms with nominal remaining kWh
 
They are as follows:

60 kWh - 204.3 Ah
70 kWh - 232.4 Ah
85 kWh - 232.4 Ah

And nominal voltage for State of Energy for these packs (note this is different from State of Charge) are 304V and 347.4V respectively

We will pull the others for 75/90/100 kWh packs
 
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Hello All:

Thank you to all of you who have contributed to these forums to help owners over the years.

I own a 2016.5 90D (November 2016 build date with 90 kWh, 400 VDC, 1088790-00-A battery label) that has 209791 kms (130358 miles). My battery warranty ends in Dec 2024 and so I am thinking about post-warranty life of the car. I did a lot of reading here about CAC and measuring battery health.

I collected some information shown in the table below using scan my tesla. As you can see that since early March I already had a CAC imbalance of 7.3 Ah and it jumped to 9.5 Ah when measured today. I don't have the exact mileage from early March but it would be ~206000 kms or so.

As per my understanding from this thread as well as this one (Clarity around CAC imbalances), my battery seems to be dying a slow death and is at that 8-10 Ah range where its just a matter of time. Any way I could help it along so that it fails within warranty? I don't want to be left with having to do a battery replacement on my dime just after the warranty ends. I prefer to keep this car. I reason that if I keep it charged to 100% (to stress the weakest cells) instead of my daily 80% and then drive it down low (10% state of charge?) and supercharge it back up (to 80%? or just to at least 50%?) to stress the cells it would accelerate degradation. Would this be a good plan? I'm just surprised this is happening to a late November 2016 build as I have not read of many of these failing in this forum so I am not sure if I am missing something.

I can share scan my tesla screenshots if necessary for more details. No errors are present right now.


Date​
Mileage (kms)State of charge %cell imbalance (mV)CAC min (Ah)CAC max (Ah)CAC avg (Ah)CAC imbalance (Ah)Max-min/max %imbalance/max %
Mar 2 20248082172242207.33.133.26
Mar 9 20248042172242207.33.133.26
April 6 20242090138062162242208.53.573.79
April 15 2024​
2097918062152252209.54.44
4.22

Thank you for the help.