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Wow, sounds like a huge headache, but brake rotor rust where the pads don't contact is totally normal. I've seen it on every car I've ever had where the rotors were easily visible thru the wheels. And, rust will quickly appear on the rotors if the car's left for a bit, which is also totally normally. Some use of the friction brakes make it go away.. I also mentioned my disappointment that the brake rotors were covered in rust, but I was told this was only cosmetic and I would need to live with it. A disappointment for sure on a car that is marketed as "like new", but oh well.
In this case though the brake rotor is fine. What looks awful is the brake drum and that will not get better with braking as there are no contact areas on the drum. Also the caliper looks horrible like the previous owner took horrible care of the car and never washed and cleaned it. IMHO they should have done something to improve the appearance of the car before selling it as CPO. CPO should mean "like new" with minimal wear and they should have done something to dress up the brake drum and caliper.
Again rust, dirt, and grime in the rotor is acceptable and normal but this is not the rotor.
Well, they did replace the rear rotor hats on this last service visit. I still don't know why (not like I was complaining though). I can only imagine it was connected with my drive unit swap b/c they did not service the front rotor hats. This picture is of how my rear brakes look now. This, to me, is an acceptable level of cosmetic wear and tear to the brakes.
Drucifer
Active Member
If anything, the CPO cars should cost maybe $2-4k more, and REALLY be gone over and REALLY be fully inspected before going on the site. At least 1/4 or more of the CPO (or used not yet CPO) Model S that Tesla is holding on to should be relegated to auction and not hit the CPO program at all.
I will add that I also had numerous issues with my car on delivery (at my house). 80%+ of these issues were obvious in a 20 minute inspection I did of the car on receipt (one with the interior lighting you wouldn't find except at night). My assumption has to be that they didn't want to delay delivery of my car and wanted to get it into my hands.
Fortunately for me, all of the issues were resolved by the local service center within 7 days of delivery and they gave me a loaner for 2 1/2 days to get that done. I got lucky - but really, with a CPO program, receipt of a 100% "ready to drive" car should be a 100% thing, unless something happens on the transporter on the way to a home delivery of a car.
I will add that I also had numerous issues with my car on delivery (at my house). 80%+ of these issues were obvious in a 20 minute inspection I did of the car on receipt (one with the interior lighting you wouldn't find except at night). My assumption has to be that they didn't want to delay delivery of my car and wanted to get it into my hands.
Fortunately for me, all of the issues were resolved by the local service center within 7 days of delivery and they gave me a loaner for 2 1/2 days to get that done. I got lucky - but really, with a CPO program, receipt of a 100% "ready to drive" car should be a 100% thing, unless something happens on the transporter on the way to a home delivery of a car.
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Father Bill
Member
I am so sorry that you have had all the problems you have had. I agree that the MS should have been brought back to like new condition. I can only guess that the program was so new that some problems slipped through the net. I put my deposit down April 26th and had my car on the 1st of May. I have had nothing but a good experience with my purchase (minus an issue with Illinois Registration, which is still not resolved:cursing
. The few little things that were left to be done have been. The Service Center has gone out of their way to keep the car in like new condition. I only hope that you find some resolution to all the issues you have gone through. Keep asking for resolution and I hope that someone at the mothership will respond effectively.
Peace,
Father Bill
. The few little things that were left to be done have been. The Service Center has gone out of their way to keep the car in like new condition. I only hope that you find some resolution to all the issues you have gone through. Keep asking for resolution and I hope that someone at the mothership will respond effectively.Peace,
Father Bill
freeewilly
Member
Thanks for sharing your experience, most posts are praise how great the CPO experience, but some of us want to read both sides of the story. I never purchased an used car before, it reminds me that I'm not buying a new car.
I just reserved a CPO car from Highland Park yesterday, the advisor contacted me during the car was in the inspection to qualify for CPO. It's hard to believe that I made the decision to purchase the car only base from an email with a tiny picture that shows the options of the car. I pulled the trigger without see and touch the product, it was all based on Tesla's image of how they handles the CPO and treat their customers.
The car is scheduled to be delivered to OC in 3 weeks, I really hope I'm the lucky one and looking forward to enjoy what most people praise about Tesla purchasing experience.
I just reserved a CPO car from Highland Park yesterday, the advisor contacted me during the car was in the inspection to qualify for CPO. It's hard to believe that I made the decision to purchase the car only base from an email with a tiny picture that shows the options of the car. I pulled the trigger without see and touch the product, it was all based on Tesla's image of how they handles the CPO and treat their customers.
The car is scheduled to be delivered to OC in 3 weeks, I really hope I'm the lucky one and looking forward to enjoy what most people praise about Tesla purchasing experience.
Sorry, Cyclone. A lack of coverage for past, non-Tesla, workmanship stood out to me. I almost think they really don't mean that, or wouldn't hold you to it if pressed. I looked up Acrysol and it's a tough call. Not an uncommon product in a detailer's toolkit, but enough of a last resort tool that perhaps they should have tried a more limited area? A number of search hits show that it is good for over-spray (misty roughness).
I have to bite my tongue. We want Tesla to have a successful CPO program, and maybe realize it should involve fewer cars.
I have to bite my tongue. We want Tesla to have a successful CPO program, and maybe realize it should involve fewer cars.
You are buying a used car. Do your due diligence like any other used car. Go over the car carefully inside and out, ask to inspect the service records and work history on the car so you know the car was maintained properly and there are no major reoccurring issues and I highly recommend you have a reputable body shop do a pre purchase inspection. It will cost you $200 but you will know if there are any paint issues or any accident damage that was not fixed properly. It's a small cost to do that pre purchase inspection for a very expensive purchase. I personally would not pay for a used car without satisfying these points.
Overall Tesla is a good company, but they kind of suck at selling cars. This no dealership model is kind of a failure I think...
I first test drove a car in Atlanta and the salesman was amazing and I basically decided to buy the car right there. Then I did another test-drive in CLT and there is no doubt in my and my wife's minds that if we had first test-drove the car in CLT, we would definitely NOT have bought a Tesla because the salesperson was unenthusiastic and did nothing to explain and promote the product. Like any product, the salesperson makes or breaks a deal no matter how good the product really is.
I think Tesla should and must institute a dealer like system whereby effective salespeople are rightly awarded.
Moreover, the deliver process, like many who agreed with me in my thread and as many others have posted, lacks information, communications, and is pretty much outright bad compared to say Mercedes, Lexus, or BMW.
The CPO program probably needs to be improved. Certain cars that are in poor conditions should not belong to a CPO program... I purchased an almost new Lexus a couple years ago, and although the front hood had been painted, the car was in completely excellent condition. I could not tell at all that the car was used, and could easily be put in a showroom and would look completely new. The car had absolutely no issues whatsoever. If I go to my local Mercedes dealership and look at their CPO cars (I have done such things in recent years), they are all in immaculate condition and all look new, pressure washed daily.
If Tesla wants to sell more cars and really become a mainstream car company, it needs to improve all these aspects.
I first test drove a car in Atlanta and the salesman was amazing and I basically decided to buy the car right there. Then I did another test-drive in CLT and there is no doubt in my and my wife's minds that if we had first test-drove the car in CLT, we would definitely NOT have bought a Tesla because the salesperson was unenthusiastic and did nothing to explain and promote the product. Like any product, the salesperson makes or breaks a deal no matter how good the product really is.
I think Tesla should and must institute a dealer like system whereby effective salespeople are rightly awarded.
Moreover, the deliver process, like many who agreed with me in my thread and as many others have posted, lacks information, communications, and is pretty much outright bad compared to say Mercedes, Lexus, or BMW.
The CPO program probably needs to be improved. Certain cars that are in poor conditions should not belong to a CPO program... I purchased an almost new Lexus a couple years ago, and although the front hood had been painted, the car was in completely excellent condition. I could not tell at all that the car was used, and could easily be put in a showroom and would look completely new. The car had absolutely no issues whatsoever. If I go to my local Mercedes dealership and look at their CPO cars (I have done such things in recent years), they are all in immaculate condition and all look new, pressure washed daily.
If Tesla wants to sell more cars and really become a mainstream car company, it needs to improve all these aspects.
Tesla may have problems but I wholeheartedly disagree with you about Tesla instituting an award system for employees to sell cars being the solution but I do agree with you in that improvements can and should be made to the CPO program.
Tesla is outselling the Mercedes S class in the $100K sedan market. They have 20,000+ reservations for the yet to be released Model X. They are doing just fine with sales and the product sell itself.
They do not have a sales problem. They have communication problems and certain problems with their policies that IMHO can be modified to better serve their customers and themselves I just posted a thread about my thought on this on the Model S forum.
The Tesla staff I believe are doing the absolute best they can for the company. They are the unsung heroes performing magic with limited resources and I'm sure work long days. I've worked with Tesla employees at various levels and they all do the best they can for the company.
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mikeash
Active Member
That is very strange. I've never seen or even heard of an uninterested Tesla staffer before.
However, while car shopping at traditional dealers a couple of years ago, it was about 50/50 as to whether any given sales person gave a crap about me. There were a couple of good ones, a bunch of people who sort of cared a little bit, and a couple of people who did the bare minimum possible.
Dealers suck, and Tesla's model is far superior, even if it may not be perfect.
BoerumHill
not great not terrible
I haven't been very impressed with the folks at the tiny gallery on West 25th in Manhattan. Low energy and prone to misinformation. One guy, Michael, is 5 series owner and a performance car enthusiast, but he's also one of three employees at that location who gave me false info ("RFS can be added to a new order aftermarket.") I'm probably going to order/take delivery at a not exactly nearby service center location (Mt Kisco or Syosset) just to avoid them.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
Well, they did replace the rear rotor hats on this last service visit. I still don't know why (not like I was complaining though). I can only imagine it was connected with my drive unit swap b/c they did not service the front rotor hats. This picture is of how my rear brakes look now. This, to me, is an acceptable level of cosmetic wear and tear to the brakes.
I thought CPOs were supposed to be refurbished to "like new", that doesn't even look like "like cleaned well" let alone "like new".
I think someone needs to have a serious review of what a NEW car should look like.
And that is AFTER they replaced parts and made it look better. Seriously I'd want some Aero or 19" cyclone/turbine style wheels to reduce visibility of the corrosion if they aren't going to repaint or replace ugly calipers.
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Agreed for a Model S. Something that expensive is worth a small bit of insurance by being prudent and employing others to double check your inspection.
I however didn't take that level of care when buying a used Leaf for $8995. I checked it out with an ODBII adapter / leafspy so I knew the battery SOH% / aHr level and cell balance but I didn't take it to a shop for a paid inspection.
I'll tell you right now my non CPO used Leaf looked pristine compared to his CPO Tesla (no rust on the rims, discs, calipers, no surprises inside or out).
I'd be talking to a regional or national level manager if the service center doesn't make it right. Heck even if they do make it right I'd send a followup message up the chain to address the underlying procedural issues.
TomServo
Active Member
HankLloydRight
No Roads
I don't think Tesla ever made a promise like this, rather it's just what CPO buyers are expecting. Rust on rotors is common on ALL cars, new, used, CPO, etc. Rotors begin to rust the moment they leave the factory.
They either replaced the rotors or painted the existing ones. I don't see how/why the rear rotors would be involved in a drive unit replacement.
Multiple Owner Advisors and Store Managers have explicitly stated that to me. That said, "like new" is unqualified and subject to interpretation. Later customers can get a checklist of what CPO reconditioning is done, that adds significant clarity.
Personally, I've never bought vehicles from the North before. Maybe as I experience Northern cars more, it will change my expectations. That said, I will say I was very surprised to see them that way even when there was no performance impact. Looking at the calipers then vs. now, if the calipers are rotors came to me in that cleaner, but not perfect state, it would have been fine to me. It was intensity as-delivered that took me aback. But yes, I hear that is very common on cars from the North.
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I don't know. The service invoice in the same line item "box" as the "Rear Drive Unit - Remove and Replace" and "Four Wheel Alignment (with Air Suspension)" does include:
Corrections: Brake Rotor - Rear - LH
Replaced LH rear brake rotor.
Part:
REAR BRAKE ROTOR - OUTER HAT AS CAST (6006431-00-D)
Corrections: Brake Rotor - Rear - RH
Replaced RH rear brake rotor.
Part:
REAR BRAKE ROTOR - OUTER HAT AS CAST (6006431-00-D)
jeffro01
Active Member
zer0cool said:
I agree with 'Max*'. Turning Tesla over to the sharks would be a very, very, very bad idea. Elon has been adamant about this from day one, and I couldn't agree with him more.
Tesla needs to weed out bad apples as they find them though. I haven't seen a Tesla store where everyone wasn't enthusiastic about the brand\car(s). I'd be very put off if I did though, but I wouldn't hold it against Tesla directly. Sometimes people just have a bad day and aren't as jovial as they could be, etc..., etc...
Jeff
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