Model S to the Nürburgring Next Week!

[PhantomX]

re Porsche having track times as part of design criteria.. I can hardly think of a less useful design criteria. Also an antiquated one that is completely backward facing, like they are living in the 1960s or something. The world has been moving away from private ownership of cars for at least a decade, the time when cracks started appearing in Japan as young people delayed or abandoned car ownership. In a world of non private car ownership track times...don't matter. Add self driving cars on top of this and it really becomes a WTF who cares. I care if I can drive my Tesla across the country. It already accelerates too fast for my own good, when do I actually need to go faster on a curvy street? Never. Stupid. The engineering accomplishment is impressive and completely useless, like analog HD TV that Japan spent a billion dollars creating. What this really shows is that Porsche is still being run by idiots. BMW at least is floundering so badly they fired CEO, when does Porsche do the same? All that engineering money should have gone into a question of how to drive the thing from home to a meeting 2 hours away and back. Which it can't do. They have engineered something ...but it is not impressive.

That's the beauty of having many different car companies out there. I and many other enjoy Porsche's desire to make a driver focus car. At the same time, many of us who like or own Porsche like a nice commuter car like Tesla. I have a Model 3 right now, but I had Porsche and BMW in the past. I would be more than happy to add a Porsche to our garage now alongside my Model 3 if we have the garage space.

 

[PhantomX]

What this really shows is that Porsche is still being run by idiots. BMW at least is floundering so badly they fired CEO, when does Porsche do the same? All that engineering money should have gone into a question of how to drive the thing from home to a meeting 2 hours away and back. Which it can't do. They have engineered something ...but it is not impressive.

BTW, BMW CEO was replaced because of company's profitability. Porsche is one of the most profitable companies in the automotive world, so no, I don't see Porsche replacing its CEO anytime soon.

 

[vexige]

No offense ladies and gentlemen, but this discussion reminds me very much of the old saying, "IF my grandma had balls, she'd be my grandpa"

 

[MXWing]

Wow. After this event, it’s sure going to be fun watching the “I told you so” harassment. Now....if I only knew which side was right.

Porsche does something amazing and Elon has to do the equivalent of “hold my beer”. Or in his case, “hold my red wine and ambien”.

I think the betting odds would favor Porsche but of course I hope Elon wins.

Just a weird throwdown for Elon to get into.

Porsche didn’t even call Elon out.

Gain a little if you win. Lose a lot of you fail.

 

[MichaelP90DL]

Porsche does something amazing and Elon has to do the equivalent of “hold my beer”. Or in his case, “hold my red wine and ambien”.

I think the betting odds would favor Porsche but of course I hope Elon wins.

Just a weird throwdown for Elon to get into.

Porsche didn’t even call Elon out.

Gain a little if you win. Lose a lot of you fail.

Not really. I doubt anyone would expect the S to clock the faster time. I could design a PR release that says something to the effect of: The 2019 Tesla Model S Raven Performance took on Porsche's new electric Taycan and came in second. By four seconds. But the Taycan lost to the Model S by $50,000. What's four seconds worth to you?

 

[mongo]

Not really. I doubt anyone would expect the S to clock the faster time. I could design a PR release that says something to the effect of: The 2019 Tesla Model S Raven Performance took on Porsche's new electric Taycan and came in second. By four seconds. But the Taycan lost to the Model S by $50,000. What's four seconds worth to you?

Followed by the Tesla Model S completing 20+ additional laps of the famed 'Green Hell' in a display of range superiority.

 

[dk10438]

re Porsche having track times as part of design criteria.. I can hardly think of a less useful design criteria. Also an antiquated one that is completely backward facing, like they are living in the 1960s or something. The world has been moving away from private ownership of cars for at least a decade, the time when cracks started appearing in Japan as young people delayed or abandoned car ownership. In a world of non private car ownership track times...don't matter. Add self driving cars on top of this and it really becomes a WTF who cares. I care if I can drive my Tesla across the country. It already accelerates too fast for my own good, when do I actually need to go faster on a curvy street? Never. Stupid. The engineering accomplishment is impressive and completely useless, like analog HD TV that Japan spent a billion dollars creating. What this really shows is that Porsche is still being run by idiots. BMW at least is floundering so badly they fired CEO, when does Porsche do the same? All that engineering money should have gone into a question of how to drive the thing from home to a meeting 2 hours away and back. Which it can't do. They have engineered something ...but it is not impressive.

Obviously a certain percentage of Tesla owners do care about the performance of the car otherwise ludicrous upgrades wouldn’t have been sold for a 20k premium. Every Tesla has it’s 0-60 stats posted so Elon clearly thinks that’s important to the consumer. I love my P100DL but it handles like a boat... it’d be cool to see a true performance version of the MS, not just a one trick pony. A time remotely close to the Taycan would be a great accomplishment and validate the performance capabilities of the car.

 

[larmor]

Porsche does something amazing and Elon has to do the equivalent of “hold my beer”. Or in his case, “hold my red wine and ambien”.

I think the betting odds would favor Porsche but of course I hope Elon wins.

Just a weird throwdown for Elon to get into.

Porsche didn’t even call Elon out.

Gain a little if you win. Lose a lot of you fail.

May be but the mantra from Tesla the past many years has been to learn from their mistakes--design, production, delivery, at every step. Better to learn from errors. I have no doubt they knew this day was coming, and if you can land a multi story booster on a barge in the ocean, and plan to build a halo supercar to challenge all ICE supercars, and then take your everyday EV-- the M3 and give it track mode, well then a 'ring date for the model S was coming, and if they fail, then tesla should learn how to fix it....

 

[Uncle Paul]

While I imagine that Tesla can set up a Model S to turn in some respectable times on the Ring, imagine that the Porsche might even be faster...however.

The Tesla is still faster for off track driving. More comfortable, seats more, hauls more and costs a bunch less.

Porsche will only do better at long distance racing events, which only .0001% of owners will choose to duplicate.

Still has no US charging network, no autopilot, etc.

Tesla will outsell the Taycan 10 to 1.

There are people that will only buy German cars, People that will only buy Asian cars and people that will only buy US made cars.
German cars flaunt their superior engineering, Asians usually give a far superior value, and American cars are reasonably priced with great long distance cruising.

The most amazing race of all is going to Tesla. Converting the worlds personal transportation to clean EVs.

 

[larmor]

While I imagine that Tesla can set up a Model S to turn in some respectable times on the Ring, imagine that the Porsche might even be faster...however.

The Tesla is still faster for off track driving. More comfortable, seats more, hauls more and costs a bunch less.

Porsche will only do better at long distance racing events, which only .0001% of owners will choose to duplicate.

Still has no US charging network, no autopilot, etc.

Tesla will outsell the Taycan 10 to 1.

There are people that will only buy German cars, People that will only buy Asian cars and people that will only buy US made cars.
German cars flaunt their superior engineering, Asians usually give a far superior value, and American cars are reasonably priced with great long distance cruising.

The most amazing race of all is going to Tesla. Converting the worlds personal transportation to clean EVs.

And of course Tesla from California, which is so close to America...

 

[Trunk Gap]

Whether it’s faster or not, I’ll say it- who cares. Doesn’t impact buying decisions at all. Hope people don’t get too hot or too cold on this, really, outside of it being a cool competitive thing, whichever car is faster here doesn’t really matter.

 

[ucmndd]

Not really. I doubt anyone would expect the S to clock the faster time.

I didn’t expect that either until I saw the tornado of delusion in this thread. People with zero practical track experience discounting first-hand reports and common sense.

Model S is a whole lot of lady and she’s gonna fry those tiny brakes like a line cook at Chick-Fil-A at the height of the sandwich wars.

Even with non-stock pads.
Even with “regen”.
Even with Elon’s “engineering” and tweeting.
Even with ringer tires.

There is no amount of power and cooling that makes up for sugary brakes on a track like the Ring. Model S brakes are the wrong tool for the job. Hard stop (pun intended).

 

[Jae001]

Guys, the car has to be stock to beat the Porsche. You can't modify the firmware or change the breaks, tires and suspension. Stock Vs. Stock like it was bought new. If you could modify it then it wouldn't be a fair comparison.

 

[dhanson865]

Porsche does something amazing and Elon has to do the equivalent of “hold my beer”. Or in his case, “hold my red wine and ambien”.

I think the betting odds would favor Porsche but of course I hope Elon wins.

Just a weird throwdown for Elon to get into.

Porsche didn’t even call Elon out.

Gain a little if you win. Lose a lot of you fail.

sounds more like you on the ambien


Go to the actual tweet Elon Musk on Twitter

it wasn't a reply to anyone, it wasn't addressed to anyone, no hashtags. It wasn't even posted late at night (7:19 pm eastern, 4:19 pm pacific)

It was just a neutral statement of fact. And somehow you've worked it up into a Elon's drugged up and drunk and staying up late throwing down challenges.

Head to twitter.com/elonmusk/with_replies and find the tweets you think are targeting Porsche. There is one he made and it complements Porsche. Everything else has been by other people, not Elon.

 

[LJS22]

Guys, the car has to be stock to beat the Porsche. You can't modify the firmware or change the breaks, tires and suspension. Stock Vs. Stock like it was bought new. If you could modify it then it wouldn't be a fair comparison.

Was the Porsche not modified?

 

[PhantomX]

While I imagine that Tesla can set up a Model S to turn in some respectable times on the Ring, imagine that the Porsche might even be faster...however.

The Tesla is still faster for off track driving. More comfortable, seats more, hauls more and costs a bunch less.

Porsche will only do better at long distance racing events, which only .0001% of owners will choose to duplicate.

Still has no US charging network, no autopilot, etc.

Tesla will outsell the Taycan 10 to 1.

There are people that will only buy German cars, People that will only buy Asian cars and people that will only buy US made cars.
German cars flaunt their superior engineering, Asians usually give a far superior value, and American cars are reasonably priced with great long distance cruising.

The most amazing race of all is going to Tesla. Converting the worlds personal transportation to clean EVs.

Yup. Tesla converted the world. They don't need this silly stunt. Think about it, if Tesla brings out a modified car to get close or bear Taycan, Porsche can just do their magic and turn up a GT3ish Taycan and get into the low 7:20's. This is a company that owns many records at the Ring, including the fastest record ever by anyone, any car when they did it last year with the 919. They know how to go fast here if they ever need to go faster.

 

[PhantomX]

Was the Porsche not modified?

It does have roll cage and it was a pre-production car, since production car is just rolling off the line now. However, I am willing to bet the time of 7:42 can be repeated by a very good Ring driver using a car from showroom with proper set of options that are available in the builder page.

 

[dhanson865]

In the state where I live moving a plate from one car to another without telling the state is ... frowned upon and will subject you to long conversations with various government officials.

There are classes of license plates where this is not the case, manufacturer's, dealer's, and repair plates.

In the state where I live you could tell the state and it not show up in the online database for some time after that. You'd have paperwork in the car proving the plate belongs there if you got pulled over but someone else looking it up online wouldn't see the change right away. I'd even bet there's an additional delay for that to translate to another state, regional, or national database. As in different people could look it up and get 2 different results depending on how they searched and when they searched.

People that assume online databases always match reality are blissfully unaware of reality or in for a rude awakening should they have to ever support such an endeavor.

 

[busaman]

But a current Raven Long Range Performance is a long way from a P85D. (Was it even a P85DL?) He was also running with a low SoC which impacts performance as well.

There have been major changes that should make it better. And at a minimum I assume they will use more capable brake pads. (Which anyone should do that is making a fast run around the ring.)

i aggree with the low soc that is why i stated the condittions, but i have driven mine hard on several occaisions the result was allways the same after a few corners the brakes die off i doubt the raven has lost at least 800lbs to make it agile/stiff enough to compete.

also it has to be a production car none of the facy suspension/brakes/tyres/ all the seats/aircon etc still intact otherwise its a joke not a comparison.

 

[nativewolf]

BTW, BMW CEO was replaced because of company's profitability. Porsche is one of the most profitable companies in the automotive world, so no, I don't see Porsche replacing its CEO anytime soon.

Hmmm VW still owns Porsche? BMW ceo was not fired due to profitability, but because he had no strategic vision. He was hired to create a vision for the future. He couldn't find out how to get to the future given all the constraints (German employement, short BMW car life spans, etc).