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On today's TMC Podcast, we ask the question "What is the Tesla Cybercab?". Join us on YouTube live at 1PM and participate in the chat.
Newscutter
Member
With apologies to JakeP who might be rereading this, my general thoughts:
I have to figure the camera would be non-user configurable. They'd fit a super wide angle lens (not unlike a dash cam) and it would deliver the image to either side of the main speedometer display (as the graphic on the MX page now indicates-- which I think is also new). However, where would you put the other info currently displayed there on the MS? Rearview cameras would have to be displayed ALL the time. After all, a poorly adjusted mirror can be compensated for by leaning your head one way or the other to change the view angle, but a badly adjusted camera HAS no such "on the fly" adaptability--- only a fixed wide angle lens eliminates that problem. Arguably looking down is less of a distraction than looking clear across the cabin to the far mirror--- but would take some serious adjustment period. Likewise, a camera with that wide a lens would make "objects may be closer than they appear" a major understatement!! I would expect because of the lens distortion it would seem unlikely to be used WITHOUT a complementary blind spot detection system-- if only because of liability concerns. But more on that idea in a moment-- executive summary:
So if they go all camera-- I predict we get blind spot/collision avoidance system with it, and the camera is a fixed wide angle lens. The question then becomes... where does the information displayed the now, go to?
At this point they've surely engineered and worked out a traditional rearview mirror solution anyway. Like the snazzy 21" wheels on a MS, what better way to differentiate "lesser" MX from a fully loaded one than to have high tech mirrors? I think this is the kind of thing Tesla would bundle with a Tech Pkg, or offer as a standalone upgrade dependent upon it (like parking sensors are), but still offer the traditional mirrors too-- rather than risk scaring away buyers who are uncomfortable with what appears to be yet another complicated solution to a simple problem. The falcon doors are ALREADY a pretty big "oh my... I dunno" type feature--- why risk ANOTHER one?? Especially if the alternative engineering is already done AND if you could easily charge more for the cameras-- which I fully expect are cheaper than actual mirrors anyway (remember my $50 dash cam).
So I predict cameras appear as an optional upgrade and/or bundled with the Tech Pkg which would also come with blindspot/collision avoidance system (a major step toward autonomous vehicles anyway). These would be marketed as breakthrough combinations and further enhance Tesla brand as the safest choice for families by applying state-of-the-art technology (building on the MS's reputation). For the more budget conscious grocery-getters, traditional "analog" mirrors would be offered, along with textile seats and unlit vanity mirrors on the sun visors. <ha>
As for me... I dunno. I'd have to seriously try it first hand before I'd be comfortable with it--- and if it is an additional option, I doubt I'd PAY for the privilege.... as long as power folding mirrors are offered and I could get the Tech Pkg without them.
I have to figure the camera would be non-user configurable. They'd fit a super wide angle lens (not unlike a dash cam) and it would deliver the image to either side of the main speedometer display (as the graphic on the MX page now indicates-- which I think is also new). However, where would you put the other info currently displayed there on the MS? Rearview cameras would have to be displayed ALL the time. After all, a poorly adjusted mirror can be compensated for by leaning your head one way or the other to change the view angle, but a badly adjusted camera HAS no such "on the fly" adaptability--- only a fixed wide angle lens eliminates that problem. Arguably looking down is less of a distraction than looking clear across the cabin to the far mirror--- but would take some serious adjustment period. Likewise, a camera with that wide a lens would make "objects may be closer than they appear" a major understatement!! I would expect because of the lens distortion it would seem unlikely to be used WITHOUT a complementary blind spot detection system-- if only because of liability concerns. But more on that idea in a moment-- executive summary:
So if they go all camera-- I predict we get blind spot/collision avoidance system with it, and the camera is a fixed wide angle lens. The question then becomes... where does the information displayed the now, go to?
At this point they've surely engineered and worked out a traditional rearview mirror solution anyway. Like the snazzy 21" wheels on a MS, what better way to differentiate "lesser" MX from a fully loaded one than to have high tech mirrors? I think this is the kind of thing Tesla would bundle with a Tech Pkg, or offer as a standalone upgrade dependent upon it (like parking sensors are), but still offer the traditional mirrors too-- rather than risk scaring away buyers who are uncomfortable with what appears to be yet another complicated solution to a simple problem. The falcon doors are ALREADY a pretty big "oh my... I dunno" type feature--- why risk ANOTHER one?? Especially if the alternative engineering is already done AND if you could easily charge more for the cameras-- which I fully expect are cheaper than actual mirrors anyway (remember my $50 dash cam).
So I predict cameras appear as an optional upgrade and/or bundled with the Tech Pkg which would also come with blindspot/collision avoidance system (a major step toward autonomous vehicles anyway). These would be marketed as breakthrough combinations and further enhance Tesla brand as the safest choice for families by applying state-of-the-art technology (building on the MS's reputation). For the more budget conscious grocery-getters, traditional "analog" mirrors would be offered, along with textile seats and unlit vanity mirrors on the sun visors. <ha>
As for me... I dunno. I'd have to seriously try it first hand before I'd be comfortable with it--- and if it is an additional option, I doubt I'd PAY for the privilege.... as long as power folding mirrors are offered and I could get the Tech Pkg without them.
rogbmw
Member
In a way, I am kind of concerned regarding the possible rear view cameras. Think of it this way - when driving you can quickly scan to the side view mirror, but your eyes are still up in the field of your driving. I don't know about you guys, but when I have to look down at the screen on my S, my eyes totally come from the view of driving down to the screen, then back. Lets say for discussion that I am thinking about changing lanes left. I look at the mirror plus the field of vision on the left side. Now lets say I am going to do the same left lane change with a camera - with the cameras and subsequent picture on the screen, that means I will have to look right to see the screen. And - the picture will have to be large enough to see anything.
I fully understand the decreased drag a camera will produce, plus the "cool" factor. But as we all know, there are a bunch of yoyo's out there that NEVER look before they change lanes!
Just food for thought and my 2 cents worth!
I fully understand the decreased drag a camera will produce, plus the "cool" factor. But as we all know, there are a bunch of yoyo's out there that NEVER look before they change lanes!
Just food for thought and my 2 cents worth!
I still think the ideal situation is a side mirror that folds nearly flush with the body so that it is very aerodynamic, but has a camera built into the end of it that would point backward when the physical mirror is folded in. That way if there is a malfunction of the camera or display the driver just activates the mechanical mirror and still has legal functional side mirrors.
This offers the advantage of the aerodynamics and clean styling of the camera, but the convenience and reliability of the more traditional mirror when needed or wanted. Maybe I need to get my patent submitted?
This offers the advantage of the aerodynamics and clean styling of the camera, but the convenience and reliability of the more traditional mirror when needed or wanted. Maybe I need to get my patent submitted?
I'm going to make an assumption that the TM engineers and the NHSTA will produce a working prototype we can provide feedback on, but believe the product will be far more safer as a priority by allowing the driver much more visibility in all conditions and at all times without taking their attention/eyes off of the road.
For instance, lets not make the assumption that the camera is going to be just one camera or multiple cameras collocated or limited to the visible light spectrum.
For instance, lets not make the assumption that the camera is going to be just one camera or multiple cameras collocated or limited to the visible light spectrum.
The Norwegian site never had mirrors... Does anybody have an image from the sitt showing X with mirrors? Edit: Here is a link to a post from december 2013 without mirrors: Model X Subsite Updates - Page 6 Also, a simple search on Google for "Model X" - Images shows no (dark gray) Model X with the side view mirrors... Did I miss something?
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I still see them here: Buy or Reserve a Tesla | Tesla Motors
The page used to show 2 Model S' (sig and non) and 2 Model X's (sig and non), and those had mirrors as well (red and white cars)
NigelM
Recovering Member
I understand your concern and I'll admit to a little trepidation when driving my big RV for the first time. The reality is that I loved the side view cameras within minutes and they also make you a better driver...the cameras are actuated by the indicator stalk so it kinda forces you to indicate when changing lanes (something plenty of Floridians have an issue with!).
Rog, if you're down this way I'll be happy to take you out and show you how the sideview cameras work.
Is that the only way to actuate the cameras or is there a setting to leave them on all the time? I'm always glancing in the side views and wouldn't want to have to signal just to take a peek.
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strider
Active Member
From your comment about looking "right" to see the screen, it sounds like you think the camera would in the 17" screen? Folks are saying the images would be in the speedometer screen so you wouldn't look left or right, just slightly down. In theory you're taking your eyes further away from the road with mirrors (especially the right one for left-hand drivers) than with the images in the speedometer screen.
What about a heads-up display? Does the technology for that even exist today? It's one thing to display, for example, your speed or yaw/pitch, it must be something far more complex to generate a realistic-looking image of what is to your left-rear and right-rear. But if so, would "around" the A-pillars or "on" the side windows - where a driver normally looks for the location of mirrors, be appropriate?
By the way, I really like the look of that fuggedaboutit-in-the-US VW XL1 shown in a prior post. Its side cameras, by the way, are way down the side of each door.
By the way, I really like the look of that fuggedaboutit-in-the-US VW XL1 shown in a prior post. Its side cameras, by the way, are way down the side of each door.
de704
XP268
Nothing is set in stone until they "officially" show the beta version. With Model S Beta was even written on the side. So until then every thing else is Alpha. People are just using the wrong terms.
There are two Alpha Model X's. A white one with mirrors & and another (the one used during the Model X reveal) which has been painted two different colors that doesn't have mirrors.
There are two Alpha Model X's. A white one with mirrors & and another (the one used during the Model X reveal) which has been painted two different colors that doesn't have mirrors.
NigelM
Recovering Member
In my RV there's an option to leave the side cameras on (although personally I find that a little distracting when driving); you need that option btw for reversing into campground spots. On various RVs I've seen, this feature is quite common.
santana338
Member
I worry about snow blocking the camera for the side mirrors. We just had a 12" dump up here and in the 5 miles from my covered parking at work to home my rear windshield was completely covered (with the cabin preheated and the rear defroster on) and the backup camera was obscured by snow and/or road slush/ice.
The only thing I could use to see what was behind me was the side mirrors. If they go away in the MX then in the snow you could basically be blind to anything that was not visible out the front and side windows.
The only thing I could use to see what was behind me was the side mirrors. If they go away in the MX then in the snow you could basically be blind to anything that was not visible out the front and side windows.
With the cameras in the same locations as the mirrors, I would think both would suffer about equally. When I wash my car, there's always a lot of grime on the lower half of the back of the car, but little on the side mirrors. Granted, I don't have any experience with driving in snow, but I suspect it would also accumulate mostly in the same location.
santana338
Member
I hadn't looked at the picture until now. I didn't know where they had the cameras mounted. Since they are rear facing on a stalk they should be OK against snow. At least on the drivers side a quick roll-down-the-window-and-wipe will clean them off. 
Following up on Jerry's observation, a simple, appropriately engineered air diversion "sweep" would constantly flow a sheet of air over the lens. Think of this as a miniature version of the side-to-side air deflectors that higher-end station wagons had across their rear windows starting in the....¿¿¿¿¿¿late 1960s????? (and, with a little bit of aero-engineering, involving just the right amount of sheeting air to do the job; no more than the most minuscule amount of increased coeff.of drag).
