Yeah, that tends to be my comp for the Model Y too. The SQ5 makes a good comparison too as it is higher performance. Each have some advantages, but the Y is significantly cheaper.
Honestly, from watching wk057 and others do repair procedures, I don't think the comparison is straightforward. A lot of people push module level repairs, including Tesla at one time. In reality, I've never seen them doing this. I feel like the Mach-E pack replacements that I've seen were whole packs. It is a little different if it is the electronics instead of the cells, but then again, Tesla doesn't glue those parts down either.
According to your link the Y has more cargo volume and is wider.. also more second row leg roomOnly with all seats down where it's close?
2nd row 26.6 vs 43.5
3rd row 12.8 vs 17.8
Leg room 3rd row
26.5 Vs 31.7
Not to mention the better hip and shoulder space in all rows. It's just flat out more room and more space. Heck just look at the size difference
Tesla Model Y 2021-present vs. Subaru Ascent 2022-present
Tesla Model Y SUV 2021-present vs. Subaru Ascent SUV 2022-present. Compare car dimensions (length, width and height) vs. street perspective.www.carsized.com
I'm sorry better ride vs handling is not a wash in this segment. If this was a sports segment, I'd agree. But in a 7 seater family hauler... No
I love Tesla, and short listed a model Y for my needs, daily driver plus the occasional family hauler, but it is not better than my wives 7 seat SUV for full time family stuff. The ride is just way too stiff for this segment. Can the model Y do that stuff? Sure, but it's not blindly better
It gets tiresome when Tesla fans try to pretend Tesla makes vehicles that are the best at all things, which is hilarious considering the only 2 popular models are nearly identical and drive the same, so how can the same driving dynamics, features, etc. be best for all use cases (it's not)
If the model Y was an ICE is sorta hard to evaluate, does it keep all the pros and none of the cons of an EV? Does the frunk disappear? It keeps 120mpge but then has a tiny gas tank?
Honestly, from watching wk057 and others do repair procedures, I don't think the comparison is straightforward. A lot of people push module level repairs, including Tesla at one time. In reality, I've never seen them doing this. I feel like the Mach-E pack replacements that I've seen were whole packs. It is a little different if it is the electronics instead of the cells, but then again, Tesla doesn't glue those parts down either.
And I can't help but remember that GM has quoted some people exhorbitant prices for the rare Volt battery replacements. Just because it is more modular and theoretically repairable doesn't mean that it will work out to be less costly in the real world.
These are just my opinions, of course. I'm happy to be shown to be wrong.
The link numbers are referencing space behind the Model Y 2nd row vs the ascent 3rd row. It was for you to get a sense of the size difference. The numbers I posted are correct from manufacturers and somewhat verified on review sites (motortrend shows more space for the ascent). Tesla is wide but comes in dramatically more which is why hip and shoulder room are much less on all rows vs the Ascent. The space on the ascent is also much more squared off
The Model y pack is also in modules, so why wouldn't this be possible?
They certainly are not on the "max cargo" datapoint... the total cargo volume of the 5 seater Y is slightly more than the ascent (1% more according to your link)... the 7 seater Y has slightly less cargo volume due to the extra seats but it is still very close... it also has more 2nd row legroom 41.6" vs. 38.6" on the ascent... turns out those gas tanks and engines take up some space
While I will agree that fit and finish and similar aspects are advantage legacy auto manufacturers - overall manufacturing efficiency and cost efficiencies are obviously advantage Tesla as is evidenced by the fact that Tesla can run much higher margins and even cut prices/margin and still make money - while most other legacy manufacturers are losing monies on their BEV sales today even at the higher price points - as is clearly evidenced by the transparency that Ford is showing as of a few months ago. Making a solid ICE car using old/existing legacy manufacturing techniques (not using gigapresses) might make a vehicle that has better fit and finish - but Tesla is closing this gap gradually while leveraging nextgen manufacturing processes that allow them to make a similarly equipped vehicle for significantly less money. This is why the legacy auto manufacturers are now taking a real long look at gigapress technologies and some have even placed gigapress orders and are now moving toward nextgen manufacturing processes. Tesla can fix their gremlins over time - and close these gaps - at a much lower cost per vehicle. The difficult part for many of the legacy auto manufacturers that already have billions invested into legacy factories is that they will have to either build all new factories or completely overhaul existing factories - which takes time and billions more in capital investments. I give Ford credit for racing to attempt this transition - along with VW and GM who aren't far behind. It will be interesting to see where all of this ends up 5-10 years down the road.
I agree with the point about their manufacturing efficiency. However, that doesn’t transpose to experience and ultimately quality. How many times have we hear from Tesla their upcoming innovation cut cost by reducing X or Y. Primary example is the Model Y. It was hailed as an innovative feat by reducing some hundreds of yards of cabling used in the vehicle. The single casting press hailed as an innovative feat, being able to build cars much more efficiently and quickly. That to me translation to more profit for the share holders and reducing workforce. But did we see a significant equal feat in quality improvement?
Just wanted to note that your Model S was built 8 years ago before Tesla was focusing on manufacturing efficiency (for that vehicle, at least).
I didn't realize you are hauling family stuff without a family in the vehicle...
Maybe it’s just me but like when the iPhone went to non repairable/replacement battery I am fine with it. I would prefer to replace the pack in 200k miles vs having to pay for a month of rebuild on a few failed batteries over the life of the car. Some things just don’t need to be complicated.
same volume with no one in the back two rows. Anytime else and it is not. So not the same 95% of the time, while also being more square in shape (rather than sloped), making it easier to pack and effectively more space. A dome like area with side spaces and under storage is not the same as a big square opening.
you conveniently leave out the frunk space again... also having cargo space outside of the cabin can be a godsend sometimes...and yes 2nd row leg room is more important to ME because 95% of the time im not carrying SEVEN people.. more often it is 3 or 4 people that appreciate the leg room more than they would appreciate 3rd row hip space
www.torquenews.com
Maybe it is just you.
is one a non-liquid cooled battery like the nissan leaf and one is the liquid cooled LFP model 3? if so i choose the latter despite serviceability
So you normally have the 2nd row up and third row down. So it is 43.5 to 26.6 cu.ft (30.6 with frunk) Ascent vs Y. So it is 42% more space that is also a box shape vs a dome top, small side compartments, lower level storage and a small frunk (AKA not efficient space). There is more to cargo storage than just the volumeyou conveniently leave out the frunk space again... also having cargo space outside of the cabin can be a godsend sometimes...and yes 2nd row leg room is more important to ME because 95% of the time im not carrying SEVEN people.. more often it is 3 or 4 people that appreciate the leg room more than they would appreciate 3rd row hip space
i only picked the ascent b/c it was the cheapest 7 seater SUV but perhaps its not the best comparison since it gets pretty bad MPG compared to the EPA estimates and horrible reliabilty:
A Problem With Subaru Ascent Fuel Mileage? Owners Say EPA Isn’t Even Close
Is there a problem with the new Subaru Ascent fuel mileage? Owners report the gas mileage is significantly less than what's reported by the EPA. Check out the report here.
