Hydrogen powered cars

[Brando]

Iceland started to consider hydrogen in the 1960s and projects actually started in the 70s.
Every 10-20 years they try again.
Green washing, used for public transport (Bus) so tax payers will approve.

See latest scam going for 20 years, new record
Um Íslenska NýOrku – Icelandic New Energy

Iceland wind & geothermal work summer and winter AND rivers never freeze because of geothermal.
Electricity as close to free as you can get.

1- electricty -> electrolysis -> hydrogen -> compress & store -> fuel cell -> charge battery -> run motor
2- electricity -> charge battery -> run motor
Which one is the winner?

PS- almost impossible to store hydrogen as it is such a small molecule it migrate through most any solid even metals.

PS- CARB ZEV credit 10 or 12 and BEV 4-6 Seems the only reason hydrogen projects keep getting funded. AND the free money to continue research.

 

[Brando]

@TEG thanks for the video clips
- can you tell us the date & venue ?

THANK YOU again.

 

[Merrill]

So if gas is $3.50 a gallon hydrogen is $14.00.

 

[Merrill]

My reasearch says that hydrogen is $5.60 as the equivalent of 1 gallon of gas. So even more reason not to do hydrogen.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

While I'm not necessarily a fan of hydrogen, I do think that it rather humorous listening to the arguments here. Just about every response here is a verbatim the same as used with EVs.

Hydrogen definitely has some nice advantages, quick to fill, no emissions. It's even derived from the same sources that EVs get their energy, electricity.....

And that is where you need to stop. quick to fill / no emissions
4-5 times as much energy use as pure EV if you use solar power.

'They' are pushing hard to have Caltrans use H2 cars in California. We are wasting so much money on this it sucks.

 

[Brando]

So if gas is $3.50 a gallon hydrogen is $14.00.

A Look At Hydrogen Fueling Infrastructure In 2018 | CleanTechnica

Maybe closer to $16,00 - as you know, prices vary, but check out the above article.

ALSO on another article or video clip seems to me they can only fill one tank per 30-69 min. as it takes 30-60 min. to charge up/fill up the next car. But, I can't find that info right now.

Would be great to interview the few LA, CA hydrogen fuel cell leasing customers as I think we are going into the 3rd year?? at least one year, right?

Anyway, enjoy the above article and be thankful you have electricity in your garage and SuperChargers on the highway.

 

[Brando]

each video about 3 min.

short overview of H2 [hydrogen] storage

and to allow more than one fillup per hour, they have improved the system a little - here is the update info:

and from an alternative vendor - a competitor - competition is good, yes?

 

[Lloyd]

Hyundai, is meeting its CARB compliance this year with the introduction of a Hydrogen powered car on the three year lease. Everything is included in the lease.

Hyundai Nexo – Sign Up For Updates | HyundaiUSA.com

I wonder what happened to those cars today.????

 

[Lloyd]

Hyundai, is meeting its CARB compliance this year with the introduction of a Hydrogen powered car on the three year lease. Everything is included in the lease.

Hyundai Nexo – Sign Up For Updates | HyundaiUSA.com

I wonder what happened to those cars today.

 

[TEG]

@TEG thanks for the video clips
- can you tell us the date & venue ?
THANK YOU again.

Tesla's Elon Musk: Hydrogen fuel cell-powered vehicles are 'silly'
2015 Detroit Automotive News' annual World Congress.

 

[jerry33]

And that is where you need to stop. quick to fill / no emissions
4-5 times as much energy use as pure EV if you use solar power.

'They' are pushing hard to have Caltrans use H2 cars in California. We are wasting so much money on this it sucks.

Right. The principle is flawed. You use electricity to create hydrogen, and then the hydrogen is turned back into electricity. There's two major conversion losses here.

 

[Lloyd]

Right. The principle is flawed. You use electricity to create hydrogen, and then the hydrogen is turned back into electricity. There's two major conversion losses here.

You forgot the trucking to get it to the delivery location. The referigeration to maintain it at -256C and the pump to deliver it. AND,,,, it is not carbon free as the hydrogen is created from natural gas by stripping the hydrogen from the carbon, not from electrolysis.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

You forgot the trucking to get it to the delivery location. The referigeration to maintain it at -256C and the pump to deliver it. AND,,,, it is not carbon free as the hydrogen is created from natural gas by stripping the hydrogen from the carbon, not from electrolysis.

Well, electrolysis is the idealistic route since it allows for a renewable, superabundant, distributed resource.

 

[Lloyd]

Well, electrolysis is the idealistic route since it allows for a renewable, superabundant, distributed resource.

Yes, but it is very energy ineffecient and it absolutely does not make economic sense when it is procured that way.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

I think Hydrogen power only possibly makes sense after we are at a huge renewable energy surplus. Otherwise why not battery swaps? I still think that’s not a bad idea...I’m not in that much hurry but I know there are people that do a full SC charge each way to work

 

[JRP3]

Otherwise why not battery swaps? I still think that’s not a bad idea...

The logistics of swaps don't make sense. Swapping was tried by two different companies, Better Place and Tesla, and I'm pretty sure Tesla knew it wasn't practical but did it to qualify for extra CA incentives tied to fast "refueling".

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

The logistics of swaps don't make sense. Swapping was tried by two different companies, Better Place and Tesla, and I'm pretty sure Tesla knew it wasn't practical but did it to qualify for extra CA incentives tied to fast "refueling".

In a perfect location and with enough demand I believe a swap station would work. I don’t think there was ever enough demand. Only a very small part or the population would prefer to pay that much for their time. Big problem is New batteries etc.
So probably won’t happen. If you’re in that much of a hurry you don’t deserve to drive a Tesla anyway

 

[JRP3]

In a perfect location and with enough demand I believe a swap station would work.

That's the problem though. For swapping to actually be worth it the locations need to be widespread and well stocked with the most expensive part of an EV, the battery pack. And they need enough packs on hand for peak loads, so most of the time there would be a lot of battery packs sitting around unused. There are too many obstacles which prevent it from being practical, outside of maybe fleet use on standard routes. The only place I'm aware of with successful swapping is inside warehouses for battery powered lead acid forklifts.

 

[Brando]

As Elon has said - no reason to argue about Hydrogen for vehicles - make no economic sense.
You can skip/ignore the first 2 minutes - sad attempt at humor - maybe you'll enjoy?

 

[nwdiver]

As Elon has said - no reason to argue about Hydrogen for vehicles - make no economic sense.
You can skip/ignore the first 2 minutes - sad attempt at humor - maybe you'll enjoy?

IMO Joe gave fuel cells WAAAY too much credit. I really don't think most proponents are engaging in an honest debate. If Toyota wanted a fuel cell car to succeed they just need to make a PHEV, if you have a ~40 mile range like a Volt with a 15 mile commute then having the H2 station 15 miles from your house would be largely irrelevant. Use electric daily and H2 for longer trips...