How much would people pay for range?

[dhrivnak]

To me the best answer would be for a small tow along like you see on some motorcycles with say a 10KW generator. Then on those 2-6 times a year you need to travel a long distance you connect the trailer and charging plug. At 10KW you would extend your range a good 75% and I would think it would be far cheaper than carrying around the extra weight of a battery.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Trev - can't or won't....?

It must be possible to increase the amount of batteries if req'd - somehow.

Still amazes me that the other manufacturers didn't twig long ago that the optimal cars to electrify were at the top end due to the cost margins and the innate benefits offsetting the current disadvantages.

That makes EM a visionary - or a genius!

Top end cars have the highest margin. As has been noted by others, the best cars right now for Big Auto to electrify is a car that gets conquest customers. It's just another reason why Toyota's so unenthusiastic about BEVs: they'd just be taking losses on a car and selling them to someone who'd previously have bought a Prius. So, they'll take their HFCV credits, while continuing research other batteries research and gradually increasing their lithium battery supply from Panasonic and hoping to keep their hybrid market for as long as possible.

 

[purplewalt]

To me the best answer would be for a small tow along like you see on some motorcycles with say a 10KW generator. Then on those 2-6 times a year you need to travel a long distance you connect the trailer and charging plug. At 10KW you would extend your range a good 75% and I would think it would be far cheaper than carrying around the extra weight of a battery.

Wouldn't an RV park or state park with 14-50 outlets work better?
The Model S will not budge while it is being charged, so you need to be somewhere sitting while recharging.
Oh, and then you still need to have some sort of fuel/gasoline along for the generator.

I think the nearly 300 (295 miles @ 65mph) miles of the new S85D is the current best ticket to have...

 

[Canuck]

Johann,

Thanks for this. I still haven't given up hope on having a civilized discussion on range here at TMC, but it always feels like there is a group here attacking everyone with the "you don't need that much range" and "if you drive that fast you are a danger to society" mantra.

My first post here before I bought my car was about range and I haven't experienced the "group attacking everyone" regarding "not needing that much range" that you speak of. In fact, I've read the opposite with a lot of people here looking forward to the possibility of a 110kW battery. Of course, different people have different opinions, all of which you should welcome. Perhaps if you want "a civilized discussion" you should start by acting civil yourself first and not post attacking people and the forum.

 

[Sunlight]

Trev Page - I wasn't thinking of the MS but rather the less-than-100mile cars. Surely VW/Kia/BMW can find space somewhere in those EVs to add batteries to up the range to, say, 150miles. Somewhere!

I'd prefer that to the extra payment for the Rex in the i3...........

All this talk of range made me more 'aware' so I started monitoring the fuel consumption/range on our diesel Jeep Grand Cherokee on the on-board computer. Why'd I bother?!

At 305kms range left I checked the mileage and soon I had 45kms left although I'd only driven 190kms. Then it magically jumped up to 68kms but 15kms later it read 16kms.

When we got in the car to drive to the garage (I had neurotic passengers watching the read-outs!) the range jumped up and down by 2-5kms within the first km. We had about 15kms to the garage and I knew we would make it (from the diesel gauge and logging miles mentally) but I had a passenger screech "We've just lost 2kms standing still - we won't make it!".......

At least EV readout bare some resemblance to reality as far as I can ascertain.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

The first set buy Leafs and some have switched to Model S's. The second buy Model S's. The third aren't buying yet. And this is why in so many EV conversations, you hear so much "You don't need that much range ..." - because most of the people who think differently aren't even participating in the conversation. They're driving their ICE's and they're not going to give them up until an EV with enough range hits the streets.

There other key "needs" and nobody has addressed them all:
- Needs to be affordable
- Need passenger space
- Need cargo space
- Need AWD
- Need towing
- Need on-the-road charging

Tesla is working to meet all needs. I'm interested to know how much the X will tow, as that could generate more excitement in terms of future gazing at BEVs, since towing is really now the missing capability, and then you're left with iterative improvement on cost and range to expand the market.

Anyway, that list of "needs" is a key limiter beyond simple range requirements and I think Tesla has been wise to broaden the premium models before pursuing the cost-reduced Model 3/Y. When it comes to range, it becomes easier if you have broad coverage, because a larger market would allow more range options.

I'd want 130 miles of crappy weather range so 200's good, but I think Tesla will set the minimum available based on Supercharging speed: the model won't work with slow charging.

200 mile rating for me, $40k with cold weather package my limit. Don't think they'll manage it for Gen 3 though.

 

[Saghost]

Wouldn't an RV park or state park with 14-50 outlets work better?The Model S will not budge while it is being charged, so you need to be somewhere sitting while recharging.Oh, and then you still need to have some sort of fuel/gasoline along for the generator.I think the nearly 300 (295 miles @ 65mph) miles of the new S85D is the current best ticket to have...

As far as I can tell, there's no technical issue with charging while moving (not 100% certain how well the chargers will handle the changing voltage, though, especially near the top end - might need to restrict it above 80% SoC) - it is a safety decision by Tesla not to allow it. Given Tesla's corporate culture I don't expect it to change, but in principle there's no reason they couldn't allow the generator trailer to run while in motion.With a 20 kW generator and dual chargers, you could sustain 70-75 indefinitely while the fuel lasts, and it would use far less fuel than a comparable gas car even with the double conversion - but Tesla would rather find ways for you to stay purely electric.Walter

 

[neroden]

The range requirement is largely dependent on the state of the charging network -- basically, can I get to the next fast charge point? I paid $10K for an extra 20kW of battery, *because there was pretty much no charging available* in my area. If there had been more charge points, I would have paid less for it.