How likely is keyless theft 2023

[trintrax]

I know this has been discussed, but I wanted to start a new discussion. Time has moved on and thieves are getting more and more sophisticated and tech savvy.

There are a lot of keyless thefts happening in my area and I wanted to know if Teslas are still secure or is pin to drive now really necessary.
I am aware older models, esp ones with Keyfobs are being stolen but is there a statistic about M3 and newer cars?
How secure is the Bluetooth keyless entry and drive in 2023?? I read in several forums that it was unbeatable in the past and the statistics proofed it apparently.

I would hate to activate pin to drive. I just love not having to think about keys and pins and just get in my car and drive off.
But getting a note from the local police about car theft in my area and having my car at Tesla service where they always activate pin to drive by default, made me think.

 

[speedyranger74]

Regardless, always P2D on and at home bt off of my phone.

 

[Lord Farquad]

I know this has been discussed, but I wanted to start a new discussion. Time has moved on and thieves are getting more and more sophisticated and tech savvy.

There are a lot of keyless thefts happening in my area and I wanted to know if Teslas are still secure or is pin to drive now really necessary.
I am aware older models, esp ones with Keyfobs are being stolen but is there a statistic about M3 and newer cars?
How secure is the Bluetooth keyless entry and drive in 2023?? I read in several forums that it was unbeatable in the past and the statistics proofed it apparently.

I would hate to activate pin to drive. I just love not having to think about keys and pins and just get in my car and drive off.
But getting a note from the local police about car theft in my area and having my car at Tesla service where they always activate pin to drive by default, made me think.

I loved not having P2D but decided the extra security layer was worth it. Within a month I’d completely bought into P2D and don’t give it a second thought.

In my opinion, not using P2D is mad.

That’s from a sceptic.

 

[Regulo]

+1 for P2D. I like the fact I can jump out for a few seconds, knowing a chancer can't just jump in and drive off, even if the phone/fob is in the car.

 

[Dilly]

I do a community paper round twice a week. It means I have to enter P2D every time I stop. I don’t give it a second thought, it takes seconds.
Would be foolish not to to use it.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I would hate to activate pin to drive

I don’t give it a second thought, it takes seconds.

THIS. I can't imagine not using it now. Sooner or later some toe-rag will get into my car - knick my phone / whatever.

 

[MrBadger]

Using pin 2 drive is a non issue.

 

[trintrax]

I see. I think I will activate it.
I was just thinking that it is quite likely for someone to forget their phone in the car at some point.

 

[Pink Duck]

I sometimes forget (for a while) that I’ve left my keyfob within the car too, but at least P2D stops it from simply being driven off.

 

[Mrklaw]

wfh and I‘m in the front room a few metres from the car. I’m sure I hear it clunking during the day - not sure if thats unlocking because I’m close to it with my phone, or its waking up for housekeeping duties? I should probably put P2D on. I’ll give it a try but I’ve assumed so far that RFID doesn’t have range to hijack, and bluetooth on your phone is surely also not just BT but its talking to the app for ID. Has it been shown to be compromisable or have all examples been key fob only?

 

[Pink Duck]

From Wed 15th June 2022: Firmware 2022.16.1.2 release mitigated Pin2Drive Bluetooth authentication defeat attack

I’ve noticed car seems a bit more awake when I’m near with my phone, so either Wi-Fi or Bluetooth LE range, or it’s Sentry Mode analysis noticing presence of interest.

 

[MrT3]

wfh and I‘m in the front room a few metres from the car. I’m sure I hear it clunking during the day - not sure if thats unlocking because I’m close to it with my phone, or its waking up for housekeeping duties?

It shouldn't wake until you actual pull the door handle, and it shouldn't even do that unless you are within a few meters as it is using low energy bluetooth with multiple bluetooth receivers to calculate where the phone is and its distance from the vehicle.

Waking up for other reasons are normally because of some remote call from the App or some other service that has been integrated, or an occasional report back to the mothership - but that is very infrequent these days (i.e. the car will go several days without waking if left alone).

 

[WannabeOwner]

I was just thinking that it is quite likely for someone to forget their phone in the car at some point

Done that ... on more than one occasion. Particularly in the MY where the charging-dock is quite high up and obscures the phone such that I notice it less (than I did in M3)

it shouldn't even do that unless you are within a few meters as it is using low energy bluetooth

I think it may depend on phone brand. I've read of some not unlocking if phone is in back pocket ... and others that keep car unlocked even when some distance across the car park

 

[GRiLLA]

I've hung around this forum for the best part of 3 years now, I don't recall ever hearing about someone having a 3 or Y stolen with a relay attack. I'm not sure how comforting it would be to be the first though, and Pin2Drive is no great inconvenience to me.

 

[init6]

I’ve noticed car seems a bit more awake when I’m near with my phone, so either Wi-Fi or Bluetooth LE range, or it’s Sentry Mode analysis noticing presence of interest.

If Sentry is on, your car is awake.

 

[Pink Duck]

Even with home exception.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I’m selective - generally it’s turned off, if I leave the car somewhere dodgy I might turn it on but can only think of 3 occasions when I’ve done that in the last couple of years.

In 30 years of car ownership my car has been broken into just once and that was for the radio back in 1998. I’m probably tempting fate, it may be a reflection on where I live, and I certainly understand why some might want it, but I put it in the same camp as why some use crooklocks and use sentry mode, something else I rarely use.

 

[qwickshot]

Im going to go against the grain here and say I’d rather they relay attack it compared to the alternative which is the give me your keys or I’ll knife you approach.

We’ve actually seen not real world evidence that thieves can steal a model 3/Y with a relay attack so even then, I’m not sure it adds any real benefit except where you live your keys in the car.

It’s double insured (regular and replacement new car gap insurance), P2D isn’t a requirement of either so I’m not worried about it.

I know it’s not the right attitude but at the end of the day, if someone wants it badly enough they’ll take it and I’d rather not be held at knife point for the P2D code.

 

[MrT3]

We’ve actually seen not real world evidence that thieves can steal a model 3/Y with a relay attack so even then, I’m not sure it adds any real benefit except where you live your keys in the car.

Agreed. It's very difficult to relay the bluetooth implementation that Tesla has, it's not like the relay attacks on other vehicles operating at 433 MHz.

The biggest risk seems to a M3/Y allowing doors to be unlocked when the phone isn't that near - but even then hopefully the car will detect the phone isn't in the car and therefore allow it to move.

 

[doats1]

I don’t use P2D unless I’m on an overnight road trip. I see it as an unnecessary step where I live. I don’t deactivate Bluetooth either.

I live in a relatively safe neighbourhood so not concerned about break-ins. It’s all relative though; if you’ve got a police note about break-ins and thefts then it’s definitely worth thinking about the right measures to protect your car.

If I lived somewhere more urban or high risk I might be inclined to activate it.