FYI: My opinion is Model 3 > Model S

Hopefully this might be helpful to anyone who has a Model 3 and is considering moving to a Model S after the price cuts.

When Tesla did the price cuts they also dropped Model S prices like $20k or so. I was in the area and figured I hadn't driven a new S, much less any S, in six years or so. A Plaid S is like half the price of the Roadster and worse in some ways but better in some ways. Roadster seems like it may still be a while, let me check this thing out. Hopefully I love it. I think the refresh did a lot for the look, I think it's by far the best looking Tesla you can get right now. As soon as I got in I was like hell no. It's still so big and some things are still like the original S. In fact, the items you can see in the photo with the yoke is all the new good stuff but the center console, doors, etc all were very old school. I put the suspension in the most aggressive settings and went out for a 20 minute drive. The yoke was a zero issue. I'm not sure if I like it more, but I had no negatives about it. I immediately did some U turns and 3 point turns and it was a zero problem. One thing I didn't like was how big and wide the yoke is, which is how the S steering wheel is as well. The three has a smaller wheel which is far sportier. Now this S, the long range, is about the same acceleration specs as my performance 3. I nailed it and it felt much slower, but at the same time gave me a fuzzy head feeling, something I experienced in the P100D S I drove years ago but not in my model 3. The acceleration was far less enjoyable somehow. Looking at the speedo you could see it was getting up to speed quickly but just didn't feel like it. This is in line with some people who have upgraded from a Model 3 P to a Model S Plaid and say the car, while being far quicker, doesn't feel much quicker if at all. The screen above the wheel I thought would be nice but it's kind of lame. It's just redundant information and felt very old school. I was very surprised by my impression that the single center screen is superior. The new center screen on the S is larger and able to tilt in different directions...that screen was absolutely awesome...especially being able to play Steam games on it. The haptic buttons on the yoke were ok. I probably prefer old school stalks but I expected to hate the buttons but didn't. It was fine. The visibility wasn't nearly as good as the 3 and I had to get the seat very high up to get a good sporting view of the road. Also, the brakes stopped fine but didn't have nice feel to it. This is a great car [the best?] for someone who doesn't care about how a car drives. It's a shame. It looks hot, has Steam, 400 range, all the goods, but just drives like a big old man car. Not for me. I'll keep waiting on that Roadster. Until then, IMHO the best car they make is the Model 3 P which can be had for $47k and that's insane because, seriously, I think it's the best car on the market today at any price.

 

[enemji]

@enemji "Without even trying to beat the 3-series" - I would bet the 3 series was very much in mind for many who worked on the Model 3.

Side note... @Lindenwood Your question has been on my mind. I'm still mulling it about.

The styling cues tells us that they actually aimed higher than the 3 Series.

 

[Darmie]

You all are famous.

 

[enemji]

You all are famous.

I think we had a better discussion than those guys on the tube going left right and everywherr and not making a true point.

 

[dn325ci]

Dropping in with comments from a MYP owner. I was considering upgrading to a Plaid with the new price drop, and have driven two '23 MS recently to figure it out. The only thing it’s really good at is drag races. I like the new interior quality, but I don’t like how small it is or how high the floor is, especially for rear seat passengers, as I have colleagues with me fairly often. I like the air suspension, but don’t like how huge it drives - it's drives like a freaking boat dimensionally and dynamically by comparison.

As thrilling as the Plaid acceleration is and would be for me, I really love the MYP. Like I really love it. The only things I don’t like about the MYP is the occasionally choppy ride and the fact that it’s gotten so common on the streets that it’s not really special. But it’s so great at everything. Even the backseat of the Y is far more accommodating than the S.

When the acceleration thrill wears off, I don’t think I’d like the Plaid as much for daily use, and at that point, I think I'd regret selling the MYP and putting so much money into a depreciating asset. Just my take.

 

[enemji]

The Model Y is supposedly a raised vehicle on the Model 3 platform. With that in mind I expected a lot of common behavior but when I test drove the MY last week, it was not. It was a completely different vehicle from the way it handles the road to the steering and especially the road noise handling. I was contemplating getting a MY but after that ride, hell NO.

 

[popgodazipa]

The Model Y is supposedly a raised vehicle on the Model 3 platform. With that in mind I expected a lot of common behavior but when I test drove the MY last week, it was not. It was a completely different vehicle from the way it handles the road to the steering and especially the road noise handling. I was contemplating getting a MY but after that ride, hell NO.

Yeah I had the same feeling initially. My first Tesla was suppose to be a Y but after test driving the full line I got the S. My wife was in the market and I got to drive the Y a lot during testing and got a few 3s as loaners from SC. We ended up getting a Y for her and I can tell you it’s probably the most practical and line of best fit of everything folks want from a EV.

 

[TechM3]

Oh man, the S is what I wanted, but ended up with a new M3 that just picked up in December. Couldn't justify spending more than double - more likely couldn't afford to spend more than double.

 

[tesluv108]

I had two used Models S before buying a new M3P in late 2021. So I sort of downgraded and upgraded at the same time with the M3P (7 model years newer, but lower model of car.) When I got my first used S 85 about 5 years ago, it was actually a couple inches shorter than the car it replaced (2015 Chevy Impala) so I'm not sure why so many drivers complain the S is "big" but I suppose it's what you're used to that makes the difference. I could jump right out of my M3P into an S and sure, I'd be aware it is a bit larger, but it wouldn't be like stepping out of a Smart car into a '59 Caddy.

Having had both a (used) P85D (w/Ludicrous, but not the + suspension) and a M3P, the P85D was the more comfortable long-distance cruiser and the M3P felt more "tossable" but that might come down to air suspension on the P85D versus the springs on the M3P. They both felt about the same off the line - the P85D was four years old when I bought it so it had probably lost a bit off its "full power."

I'd like a middle-ground between "Chill" and "Sport" on the M3P - just enough to knock the violence out of its acceleration (or make Sport the middle-ground and bring back "Insane" mode. I usually wind up using Chill with my wife in the car to avoid making her uncomfortable but that's too slow sometimes.

A multi-speed diff in each motor would improve freeway acceleration power but introduce a lot of complexity and points of failure so that's never going to happen. I think some of the Roadsters had two-speed boxes and durability problems?

A tri-motor M3Plaid would probably be doable from existing parts, maybe slot it at 2.5 0-60 to keep it from outperforming the S Plaid. Problem is, the bigger S battery pack won't fit in the 3 from what I can tell. Maybe the 4680 cells will allow 90 to 100 kWh in the 3 pack.

Or another energy density breakthrough like solid state batteries. Just look at what happened between 1908 and 1932, how much more advanced the first Ford V8 (the whole car, not just the flathead engine) was than the Model T. EV developments are just getting warmed up here.

Edit: One more thing I'd like to see on the M3P is the "max battery power" option. Not sure how (or even if) that would work on a M3P that doesn't have a PTC heater, but it should work at least as well as the "navigate to a Supercharger before hitting the dragstrip" hack.

Having owned a m3p and having borrowed a ludicrous p90d the difference was noticeable in terms of acceleration. The p90d just wanted to jump off the line in ludicrous mode. That being said the m3p is fast and a good car - if you can get over the lame interior (sorry)

 

[tm1v2]

Having owned a m3p and having borrowed a ludicrous p90d the difference was noticeable in terms of acceleration. The p90d just wanted to jump off the line in ludicrous mode. That being said the m3p is fast and a good car - if you can get over the lame interior (sorry)

@tesluv108 This is true. We had a P100DL loaner right after getting our M3P, and it immediately made the M3P feel slow 0-60. That said I much prefer everything else about how the M3P drives, and it's plenty quick in its own right.

That P100DL loaner was for our P85 being in the shop, so we briefly had the P100DL and M3P together. They are vastly different cars. Both have the basic Tesla EV goodness, but in terms of driving character, and cargo hauling, the S and 3 are a world apart. They're so different I can't even consider either as "better" than the other, between them it's all personal preferences and needs.

Now that we have two cars (since buying the M3P), I quite like having both a Model S and a Model 3. They make a nice pair that complement eachother well. More generally, I think Model 3 plus any of S, X, or Y makes a great complimentary combo. The 3 is by far the best driving S3XY Tesla for fun around the turns. However as a sedan it's much less useful for hauling things than the big hatches of the SXY.

 

[BigNick]

Having owned a m3p and having borrowed a ludicrous p90d the difference was noticeable in terms of acceleration. The p90d just wanted to jump off the line in ludicrous mode. That being said the m3p is fast and a good car - if you can get over the lame interior (sorry)

I think there was 0.2 seconds difference between the P85DL's 2.8 and the P90DL's 2.6 advertised 0-60 times. Two-tenths doesn't sound like much but that's over 9% difference. And I think my P85DL was a bit tired, even though it had only about 23K on the clock when I bought it as a 4-year-old car. I never got much under 3.25 with various software timing methods (I don't own a Dragy.)

 

[tesluv108]

I think there was 0.2 seconds difference between the P85DL's 2.8 and the P90DL's 2.6 advertised 0-60 times. Two-tenths doesn't sound like much but that's over 9% difference. And I think my P85DL was a bit tired, even though it had only about 23K on the clock when I bought it as a 4-year-old car. I never got much under 3.25 with various software timing methods (I don't own a Dragy.)

You think that p85d was that tired with such low mileage? Wow if so, and not in a good way. Also, the p90d I drove had 56k vs 7k on my non ludicrous p90d and it would have smoked me. So I must shrug. I will always like the S interior and driving qualities better. I would own another 3 though for sure especially if they come down under 45k at some point. Great car to have for 8 years at that price

 

[TLLMRRJ]

As someone with ownership experience with the Y, 3, S, the other key point that I didn't see mentioned is panache.

Despite sharing the same design language, pulling up in a Model S versus a Model 3 is the difference between pulling up in a dime-a-dozen Corvette versus a Lamborghini ("oh, but my Corvette is just as fast and costs a fraction of price of that Lamborghini" -- yeah you're not impressing the ladies with that tired line).

The refreshed Model S has so much more presence with its widebody kit, big and wide 21" wheels, and it's just much more impressive with its meaner stance and styling from all angles.

From the driver's perspective, the Model S is a much more opulent experience. The Model S has an infinitely smoother and quieter ride, and you feel like you're driving a substantial car. The fact that the Model 3 feels like a go-cart isn't all good. In the Model 3, I feel like all other cars around me are monster trucks that are going to crush my dinky Model 3. In the Model S, I feel like the king of the road.

Those things make the Model S worth double the price to me.

 

[popgodazipa]

Yeah it does @TLLMRRJ

 

[Clover]

As someone with ownership experience with the Y, 3, S, the other key point that I didn't see mentioned is panache.

Despite sharing the same design language, pulling up in a Model S versus a Model 3 is the difference between pulling up in a dime-a-dozen Corvette versus a Lamborghini ("oh, but my Corvette is just as fast and costs a fraction of price of that Lamborghini" -- yeah you're not impressing the ladies with that tired line).

The refreshed Model S has so much more presence with its widebody kit, big and wide 21" wheels, and it's just much more impressive with its meaner stance and styling from all angles.

From the driver's perspective, the Model S is a much more opulent experience. The Model S has an infinitely smoother and quieter ride, and you feel like you're driving a substantial car. The fact that the Model 3 feels like a go-cart isn't all good. In the Model 3, I feel like all other cars around me are monster trucks that are going to crush my dinky Model 3. In the Model S, I feel like the king of the road.

Those things make the Model S worth double the price to me.

Totally valid and I bet most people agree. I've never driven one of the refreshed Model S, so I can't really say. However, I much prefer a light car to a "substantial" car. Some people feel more safe in something heavy, I guess fearing head on collisions. I think you would find that most crashes outside of people not paying attention are not head on crashes but instead situations where people were not able to slow their car fast enough or were not able to maneuver well enough to avoid something. Weight is no doubt the enemy there. I'd rather avoid crashes than "win" a head-on collision which is much less likly. Of course, there is more to being "substantial" than just overall weight and I'd love a more solid car all things equal. I'd pick a 3 sized vehicle over an S sized vehicle if the rest of the car was equal, but of course we know the S is much nicer. I wish I could get a Model 3S or something that is basically nicer 3. If you could get the 3 with ventilated seats, a driver instrument cluster, air suspension, more sound insulation and a tri motor setup I would be all over it. Unfortunately it makes no business sense and would never happen. I'll settle for a hot hatch. Fingers crossed for the 1st.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Totally valid and I bet most people agree. I've never driven one of the refreshed Model S, so I can't really say. However, I much prefer a light car to a "substantial" car. Some people feel more safe in something heavy, I guess fearing head on collisions. I think you would find that most crashes outside of people not paying attention are not head on crashes but instead situations where people were not able to slow their car fast enough or were not able to maneuver well enough to avoid something. Weight is no doubt the enemy there. I'd rather avoid crashes than "win" a head-on collision which is much less likly. Of course, there is more to being "substantial" than just overall weight and I'd love a more solid car all things equal. I'd pick a 3 sized vehicle over an S sized vehicle if the rest of the car was equal, but of course we know the S is much nicer. I wish I could get a Model 3S or something that is basically nicer 3. If you could get the 3 with ventilated seats, a driver instrument cluster, air suspension, more sound insulation and a tri motor setup I would be all over it. Unfortunately it makes no business sense and would never happen. I'll settle for a hot hatch. Fingers crossed for the 1st.

It's definitely not weight I am talking about. My prior car to the Model 3 was a Jaguar XF. That Jag was about the same weight and size as the Model 3, but it felt a million times more substantial. The "substantial" comes from the quality of engineering to give more isolation from NVH and a more composed and control ride. I would also describe it as a premium feel.

I too prefer the size of the Model 3, which is why I bought the XF instead of the Model S sized Jag XJ, and then bought the Model 3. But after a couple of years with the Model 3, I needed something with a more premium feel because life is short and you can't get back any bad miles you've driven. So the Model 3 was passed down, and now I drive the S exclusively.

During the time Tesla was designing the Model 3, Jaguar was laying off. They really should have poached Jaguar's chassis and suspension engineers. That's a company that really understands how to make a premium and sporty ride in a pretty package, even if they screw up the rest.

And I would really love to see Sandy Munro do a detailed breakdown of what it is about the Model 3 exactly that makes it feel like an econobox, especially compared to something like a Jag XF or even the Model S. I tried the common things to improve the Model 3 (extra seals, extra sound deadening pads, upgraded suspension) and nothing helped. I've seen people tear apart their Model 3 to apply dynomat on every surface, and that didn't seem to help much from their feedback. Sandy could make a huge business if he identified what are the real issues and licensed a kit to improve the Model 3.

 

[nstig8]

Compromising on fun to get that "substantial" or luxury feel from the Model S just seems like a bad trade. I'm old now (40s), but I don't want to drive an old man car. To me it's the same thing as buying a minivan because you have kids. Yeah, it's going to be more comfortable but it's just not for me. I'd be less comfortable and drive an SUV instead.
Maybe a Model S gives you some "panache" where you live, but I'm in the rich suburbs outside Washington, D.C. and no one is going to even give you a second look for driving a Model S. You've got to up your game a lot more than that to be noticed.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Compromising on fun to get that "substantial" or luxury feel from the Model S just seems like a bad trade. I'm old now (40s), but I don't want to drive an old man car. To me it's the same thing as buying a minivan because you have kids. Yeah, it's going to be more comfortable but it's just not for me. I'd be less comfortable and drive an SUV instead.
Maybe a Model S gives you some "panache" where you live, but I'm in the rich suburbs outside Washington, D.C. and no one is going to even give you a second look for driving a Model S. You've got to up your game a lot more than that to be noticed.

It's not a bad trade, and no way you are not going to look better in the rich suburbs outside Washington, D.C. in a Model S versus a Model 3.

 

[nstig8]

It's not a bad trade, and no way you are not going to look better in the rich suburbs outside Washington, D.C. in a Model S versus a Model 3.

I was saying no one will notice you in either. There are probably 8 Model 3s, 10 Model Ys, and 4 Model Ss waiting in the soccer parking lot at drop off/pick up from practice every week. Teslas aren't special here - none of them. Absolutely no one cares if you drive a Model S, and certainly not "the ladies" as you said above. Maybe the 50+ crowd out at the cougar bars might?

 

[Clover]

During the time Tesla was designing the Model 3, Jaguar was laying off. They really should have poached Jaguar's chassis and suspension engineers. That's a company that really understands how to make a premium and sporty ride in a pretty package, even if they screw up the rest.

And I would really love to see Sandy Munro do a detailed breakdown of what it is about the Model 3 exactly that makes it feel like an econobox, especially compared to something like a Jag XF or even the Model S. I tried the common things to improve the Model 3 (extra seals, extra sound deadening pads, upgraded suspension) and nothing helped. I've seen people tear apart their Model 3 to apply dynomat on every surface, and that didn't seem to help much from their feedback. Sandy could make a huge business if he identified what are the real issues and licensed a kit to improve the Model 3.

Yeah, we're looking for entirely different experiences. Which is fine. Everyone can like what they like and as I said at first, I think most agree with you. What you are referring to as substantial, I would consider more insulation and isolation. I view substantial as related to size and weight, though I did mention there is more to it alluding to what you are looking for. I assume from your preference for Jaguar chassis and suspension that you want a smooth ride that absorbs the bumps without translating that road imperfection to you. At least with my experience with Jaguar, this is what they are after and are really good at. That is not what I'm personallly after though. I want to feel the road and appreciate that feedback when pushing a car at the limits. Personally, I would not have been interested in a Tesla if they handled like a Jag. From my experience in the past as a driving coach, Jags are great under the limit, but are not great when you push them and are not very playful. Maybe driving an F-Type would change my opinion. I've never driven one of those and do think they are gorgeous. If I were to get a Jag it would be an F-type, but there is no chance I would buy an F-type over a 911 which it is intended to compete with. At the same time, I have no problem with anyone who bought one or prefer them. I totally understand people have different taste and their taste is not wrong just because it is different than my own. That's the great thing about having options. You can enjoy your S and I can dream of a nicer 3.

For me, the size and weight of the 3 is already pushing my limit. If I could get a shorter 2 door somehow under 3200lbs with a smaller battery, I'd be a happy camper. The car I built for myself weights under 2500lbs with fluids but I know I'll never see that in a modern EV I want to drive which I could afford anytime soon.

I have not tried to further isolate my Model 3 but I wonder if some of the problem is just inherent wind noise from the aerodynamics. My first electric car was a Leaf and it has funky headlights that are designed to stick out like the do to direct air away from the windows off the side mirrors. It looks stupid as can be but it works. That car is an actual econobox which has much less wind noise than the Model 3 or most luxury cars at speed. Of course vibrations through the car and squeaks have nothing to do with aero, but I do think some of the aero makes for relatively high wind noise that we can't really do much about.

 

[NeuroRad]

Compromising on fun to get that "substantial" or luxury feel from the Model S just seems like a bad trade. I'm old now (40s), but I don't want to drive an old man car. To me it's the same thing as buying a minivan because you have kids. Yeah, it's going to be more comfortable but it's just not for me. I'd be less comfortable and drive an SUV instead.
Maybe a Model S gives you some "panache" where you live, but I'm in the rich suburbs outside Washington, D.C. and no one is going to even give you a second look for driving a Model S. You've got to up your game a lot more than that to be noticed.

Model S old man car? Come on. A panamera is an old man car.

No one’s really commented on aesthetics either. The model 3 is unattractive, essentially a rental car. The S (with 21s) can go toe to toe with any sports sedan and looks wicked especially lowered. JMO.