Future Charging for Model S 1-phase or 3-phase ?

[widodh]

One bit of speculation: In talking with Jerome afterward, he was quite dismissive of any charging connection other than a Tesla connector. He seemed pretty sure the final car would have the same Tesla connector as the roadster, and an adapter available for other types.

I really do hope they do NOT screw us over again with that connector.

Accoring to Eberhard JB from Tesla promised three-phase charging for the EU models, that is not possible with the Tesla connector. But still, even when it would be single-phase, it would still be foolish to install the Tesla connector again.

I still think we have to wait until september for the IAA show in Frankfurt, I think we'll have much more information by then.

 

[malcolm]

Oh crap.

(Maybe) They DO mean a proprietory connector. (maybe it's the concept of Apple-ness they are going with)

Plus adaptors.

That's going to look less cool.

 

[AndrewBissell]

@Malcolm: you moved from "probabl" to "DO" - did extra information reach you?

 

[malcolm]

Nope - just reading the other posts - will correct.

But if they are intending to use the space behind the front grille then why bother with adaptors? Why not just install three or four different sockets as appropriate for the territory? looks like there's enough space.

 

[AndrewBissell]

That could be what they are doing. I could imagine a row of identical master sockets (like iPhone dock connectors on steroids) recessed 6"/150mm behind that door, into which plug a variety of snug fitting boxes that deliver connectors: CHAdeMO, Type 1 (J1772), Type 2 (Mennekes), J1772-DC, etc.

 

[Todd Burch]

One bit of speculation: In talking with Jerome afterward, he was quite dismissive of any charging connection other than a Tesla connector. He seemed pretty sure the final car would have the same Tesla connector as the roadster, and an adapter available for other types.

With the SAE standard now, I'd find it almost impossible that they'd be short-sighted enough to exclude a J1772 connector. As a company whose goal is to make electric vehicles ubiquitous, surely they recognize the need to adopt the standard.

Surely Jerome was mistaken...I hope.

 

[richkae]

The only kind of adapter I would be happy with would be:

1. Extremely short.
2. Lockable to the car.
3. Capable of being left on the car indefinitely ( I can close the charge port door and leave it there - thats why it needs to be short. )

If Tesla did that, then I would perfectly happy for them to design one uber-port for the car that can support every possible other charge connector.
I would drop the J1772 on top of it and leave it there 99% of the time. If I got to a place with a CHAdeMO, I would take off the J1772 and pop the CHAdeMO dongle on.
If they had short little adapters for every other connector: J1772,CHAdeMO,Mennekes,J1772-DC and any of them could be left on the car under the port that would be fine with me.

Any other form of adapter would suck. Really really suck.

If Tesla is dead set on using adapters - this idea is my free gift.

 

[ckessel]

I went as well. The Tesla folks were all very nice. The car is sort of outdated by the Alphas as this point and you couldn't even touch it, much less sit in it, so there really wasn't much to see for someone that had any prior knowledge of the car. The only piece of new information to me was asking about Sig reservations. I guess they're filling up fast at this point, which is a bummer for me. When the 300 mile battery pack was announced, apparently many regular reservations upgraded to the Sig. It'll be about 3 months before I have the cash saved for the Sig down, by which time there probably won't be any slots.

 

[vfx]

poll?

Don't know how to do a poll.

Do you want the Model S to have a native J1772 connector?
Do you want the Model S to have a Tesla proprietary connector?
I'm Ok with the Model S having Tesla connector and using an adapter.

 

[Eberhard]

I want the Model S to have the Mennekes socket. This would be a real universal socket. Allowing single phase charge up to 70A/500V, 3-phase charging up to 400V(480V?)/63A and DC up to 140A (500V?). This is a MUST for Europe

 

[EV_de]

ditto

 

[dsm363]

For the US, the Model S has to have J1772 and in addition, some sort of DC fast charging. If Tesla wants to design some sort of semi-permanently installed adapter (basically built into the car but can easily be swapped out by Tesla for different markets to provide other plug options), I'd be fine with that but no adapters should be needed by the owner to charge.

 

[dsm363]

Don't know how to do a poll.

Do you want the Model S to have a native J1772 connector?
Do you want the Model S to have a Tesla proprietary connector?
I'm Ok with the Model S having Tesla connector and using an adapter.

When you go to 'post a new thread' under Forum Tools scroll down to 'Additional Options' and the poll creation button is there. I've never posted a poll before though.

 

[Lloyd]

I want the Model S to have an 80 amp capable J1772 for the US, combined with a single socket DC fast charge, as dictated by the SAE protocol being discussed. They need to get going on this an approve a standard for this, otherwise cars will be comming off the assembly lines with charge protocols different from the standard when finally approved. The charging infrastructure wants to be installed, but it cannot while the standard is still in limbo. This is really dumb to take years to approve this.

 

[widodh]

I want the Model S to have an 80 amp capable J1772 for the US, combined with a single socket DC fast charge, as dictated by the SAE protocol being discussed. They need to get going on this an approve a standard for this, otherwise cars will be comming off the assembly lines with charge protocols different from the standard when finally approved. The charging infrastructure wants to be installed, but it cannot while the standard is still in limbo. This is really dumb to take years to approve this.

And the thing that they seem to forget (that's my feeling): The rest of the world!

Like many others repeated over and over, in the EU we really need three-phase charging with the IEC 62196 connector (Mennekes), one phase with J1772 won't do the job, it would limit us to 32A for 99% of the time. Finding a 32A+ spot is really rare, but 3x32A is no problem. (22kW of power!)

So, no J1772 for me, I really need three-phase charging, right now that is THE downside of the Roadster.... Please Tesla, do NOT forget the EU, the world is bigger then the US

 

[Lloyd]

That's why I prefaced US. Three phase charging does not work in the US in most instances.

It appears that there will need to be two standards, as the inverter that is resident in the car would need to support either single phase or three phase, or suffer a weight penalty to accomodate both. J1772 as currently approved does not allow for the third hot leg!

 

[qwk]

I hope they go with J1772. Adapters are too much hassle, especially when all of the Tesla HPC's in the wild are almost all J1772 now.

 

[Eberhard]

That's why I prefaced US. Three phase charging does not work in the US in most instances.

Thats wrong. Any DC - fast charging station will be powered by AC 480V 3-phase. Do you really believe they will do it with 240V 200A split-phase?

Mennekes specification goes up do 400V/63A 3-phase = 44kW or up to 140A 500V DC = 70kW all this comes with only one socket?

70 A @ 480 VAC / 56 A @ 600 VAC

 

[Lloyd]

Thats wrong. Any DC - fast charging station will be powered by AC 480V 3-phase. Do you really believe they will do it with 240V 200A split-phase?

No that's not what I said. Three phase power is not available in 99.999% of homes in the U.S. Whatever connector is selected, most changing done at home will be single phase in the US as that is what is here, just as three phase is available in Europe.

Commercial DC fast charging will need three phase 480V as you say, but these will be doing a small percentage of the average user's charging.

 

[Eberhard]

Why not to skip DC charging with very expensive technology? Do 3-phase AC instead is much cheaper? You will wonder how widespread 3-phase is already. even in U.S