There had been discussions before about issues with pulling too much from only one phase.
Makes things "unbalanced" further down the line. I guess it depends on your power company and the type of equipment they use.
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There had been discussions before about issues with pulling too much from only one phase.
Makes things "unbalanced" further down the line. I guess it depends on your power company and the type of equipment they use.
I think this thread is raking over old ground, but that's ok because Tesla need to hear this.
We should probably accept that for the foreseeable future, North America will be split phase and Europe more readily three phase.
The Model S needs three phase here, but if they really, really can't do it, the PEM and UMC need to support 400V so we can at least connect across L1 and L2 (ignoring L3).
We should probably accept that for the foreseeable future, North America will be split phase and Europe more readily three phase.
The Model S needs three phase here, but if they really, really can't do it, the PEM and UMC need to support 400V so we can at least connect across L1 and L2 (ignoring L3).
If there is no 3-phase charging I'm sure someone will make an EVSE that will take 3x16A 400V input and then output 230V 48A. Or even 3x25A in and 1x75A out. But it's going to be big and expensive....
Much easier to support 3-phase charging in-car.
For commercial charging sites this is not a problem, one can get 3x80A service and support 3 80A EVSEs.
Much easier to support 3-phase charging in-car.
For commercial charging sites this is not a problem, one can get 3x80A service and support 3 80A EVSEs.
I'm planning on buying the 300-mile version (Reservation has been done already), but 3-phase is really needed (Netherlands). Like more people said, the max we can get is 40A (breaker) on 3-phases, but my house will also need to run on those same phases.
With 3x40A breakers in my house I could charge with 3x32A (22kW) or 3x16A (11kW), the first option will recharge in 4 hours, the second in 8 (84kWh battery on he 300-mile version).
I really hope that 3-phase will be supported in the Model S, since 3-phase is really common on this world, hell, in Europe it's ALL 3-phase.
If Tesla attends the Frankfurt Autoshow in 2011 I'll be there to ask them these questions
With 3x40A breakers in my house I could charge with 3x32A (22kW) or 3x16A (11kW), the first option will recharge in 4 hours, the second in 8 (84kWh battery on he 300-mile version).
I really hope that 3-phase will be supported in the Model S, since 3-phase is really common on this world, hell, in Europe it's ALL 3-phase.
If Tesla attends the Frankfurt Autoshow in 2011 I'll be there to ask them these questions
DC "fast" charge port could help here
With the Model S DC fast charge port, it will be possible to make a 3-phase off-vehicle charger for home use. It can be smaller and less expensive than commercial 45 min fast chargers, and designed to use European standard 3- phase power used for ovens, A/C, etc. Different chargers could be made for different countries' standards, without affecting the vehicle.
The DC port can then be used for overnight charging in the home.
What is needed is a *Worldwide* standard DC port and protocol, that includes level 1-3 charge rates, not just fast charge. Perhaps based on the CHAdeMO protocol.
We really need the US, Europe, Japan, China, and Korea to work together on level 3, not repeating the Level 2 non-harmonizable standards situation.
GSP
With the Model S DC fast charge port, it will be possible to make a 3-phase off-vehicle charger for home use. It can be smaller and less expensive than commercial 45 min fast chargers, and designed to use European standard 3- phase power used for ovens, A/C, etc. Different chargers could be made for different countries' standards, without affecting the vehicle.
The DC port can then be used for overnight charging in the home.
What is needed is a *Worldwide* standard DC port and protocol, that includes level 1-3 charge rates, not just fast charge. Perhaps based on the CHAdeMO protocol.
We really need the US, Europe, Japan, China, and Korea to work together on level 3, not repeating the Level 2 non-harmonizable standards situation.
GSP
BRUSA is offering a 22kW DC-Charger from 3phase 400V/32 socket. It only weights 12 kg but its liquid cooled (best to connect to your warmwater-system for heating the house). Efficiency is around 97%.
But Model S has already a liquid-cooled PEM,Motor;Batterie. Must be a perfect fit as an option for european owner.
But Model S has already a liquid-cooled PEM,Motor;Batterie. Must be a perfect fit as an option for european owner.
According to the list below Norway has 380V 3 phase supply. Your single phase voltage is 220-240V. 380V you get between the phases (due to phase shift).
http://www.sensorcentral.com/worldsupport/standards12.php
Some places have the common 400V system, but most of the older residental areas only have 230V even on 3-phase. I have 3x50A 230V into my house, the loads are connected between L1&L2, L2&L3 and L3&L1. With 400V the loads are between L1/L2/L3 and N.
For 230V 3-phase we use the blue CEE connectors, not the 400V red ones.
In IEC 60309 the colour indicates the voltage not the number of pins.... Blue is 200-250V and Red is 380-480V;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60309
Kevin: Correct. The blue 5-pin variety can be used in 110V per phase countries as e.g. the US, because then the voltage among the phases will not exceed the 250V limit for this colour. According to the German Wiki this plug is used sometimes in the US as an outdoor alternative to NEMA plugs. So the blue plugs in most of Europe can only have 3 pins with one 230V phase and we refer to them as the blue or perhaps more correctly the "Camping" or CARA plugs. There is also a 32A single phase blue plug around, but is not permitted in Switzerland. There is indeed a Norwegian 230 V, 3-phase, 50 Hz, 4-conductor system still in existence, but I found no references to similar systems elsewhere in Europe.
Albania use the same system as far as I know.
Here's a picture of the 32A 3~ 230V connector:
http://www.biltema.no/no/Bygg/Elektrisk/CEE-installasjon/Tilkoblingsutstyr-3-fase-Norge/
MODERATOR'S NOTE: Charging discussion from the Portland Prototype Tour thread continues below.
This would be very bad news. I've been getting hints that they want to have their own connector (like a Sony or Apple). Let's hope they don't go that route.
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