Firmware 6.1

[scaesare]

I didn't know that. I could've sworn pre autopilot MS was not drive by wire. Are you telling me there is software in between my brake pedal and the pads on the wheels - that there is no physical connection? And same goes for the steering wheel? This is all news to me.

The steering and brakes are electric power assist. There is still a physical connection in each case that allows you to steer or brake in case of an electrical system failure/malfunction.

As an addition, the system can also apply brakes or steer without driver input... but it doesn't prevent​ you form doing so.

 

[dennis]

One thing wife (subjectively) noted is that there's just that infinitesimal but apparently perceptible delay before the power kicks in when the go pedal is punched from various cruising speeds.

With range mode ON is the delay similar to accelerating when in the top (overdrive) gear of an ICE and range mode OFF like accelerating when in one gear lower than top?

 

[skilly]

Auto-pilot risk discussion maybe OT, and much broader than Tesla of course - but I find very interesting.

I share Amped and Hank's concern that it will take time to perfect auto-pilot, and that humans can/will botch it up. Glad that Tesla has "outsourced" most of this to Mobileye, which has deep experience across many marques... so much of the function will come from dedicated specialist.

Ecarfan and Skilly, true that many of the MS (and most lux cars these days) are laden with "drive by wire"... steering, accelerator, brake, ABS, traction control.... but I believe that this is a different class of software with respect to complexity. For example, steering software does one thing: steer front wheels lock to lock - and is controlled by one input device: steering wheel. Pretty simple set of use cases, relatively easy to bulletproof. Auto-pilot software, on the other hand, has to take multiple inputs (photographs, sensor input, etc.), interpret them, relate them, devise a response, and relay it to multiple systems (braking, steering, acceleration, driver alerts). Much, much, much more complex. And, the "drive by wire" functions have a failsafe involved on the other end - the driver. When we get to full auto-pilot, drivers are going to check out, so this incredibly complex software is going to have to be pretty perfect.

To your point of complexity, I fully agree. That said, despite what the last few posts suggest, autopilot is not going to come in a big bang way...thankfully avoiding almost certain calamity on the road. I think it needs to be said just as a point of clarity, we know this to be true. In fact, we know this because TACC and Lane Assist are out and part of the overall package.

So, if history repeats, they will release the software progressively, and thereby mitigating the risk of large scale change and overall driver/pilot error. If the releases are anything like I am seeing on the forum, they will be slow in terms of market demand, and deliberate to avoid significant brand damage. For example, maybe blind spot detection or self park (such as what is available today with almost every other car brand) before more complex features like active lane change assist.

 

[apacheguy]

The steering and brakes are electric power assist. There is still a physical connection in each case that allows you to steer or brake in case of an electrical system failure/malfunction.

As an addition, the system can also apply brakes or steer without driver input... but it doesn't prevent​ you form doing so.

As yes, that much I knew. The connotation of "electronic controlled" as ecarfan stated implies something totally different. That much only applies to the autopilot cars.

 

[InTheShadows]

Check this out!

Version .116

I think I need a reboot.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

With range mode ON is the delay similar to accelerating when in the top (overdrive) gear of an ICE and range mode OFF like accelerating when in one gear lower than top?

It's (apparently) even more subtle than that. Can't quantify it myself unfortunately, yet.

 

[tomas]

I think I need a reboot.

I wouldn't go that far.... your car certainly needs a reboot, but you may be OK:biggrin:

 

[Noone]

Check this out!

Great use of screen real-estate. Very compact.

 

[jerry33]

I didn't know that. I could've sworn pre autopilot MS was not drive by wire. Are you telling me there is software in between my brake pedal and the pads on the wheels - that there is no physical connection? And same goes for the steering wheel? This is all news to me.

The steering wheel has a direct connection to the rack and pinion, but there is software which adjusts the "power" part. Same thing with the brakes, there are manual hydraulics, but the power part is run by software. Autopilot won't change this, it will just add more software controls.

 

[Todd Burch]

The steering wheel has a direct connection to the rack and pinion, but there is software which adjusts the "power" part. Same thing with the brakes, there are manual hydraulics, but the power part is run by software. Autopilot won't change this, it will just add more software controls.

^ this is correct.

 

[wk057]

The steering wheel has a direct connection to the rack and pinion, but there is software which adjusts the "power" part. Same thing with the brakes, there are manual hydraulics, but the power part is run by software. Autopilot won't change this, it will just add more software controls.

Going to ACK this also.

The only control inputs that are 100% drive by wire are the accelerator, direction ("gear") selection, and parking brake.

 

[bob_p]

Since receiving my P85 two years ago (50K miles), owners have been asking (pleading) for Tesla to improve their software release process.

Owners have no indication as to when or if they'll see updates (there are still owners running on 6.0), and when the updates do come, there's usually no indication of what's in the update.

And, since we are still seeing the start-stop release process, due to critical bugs found during distribution, Tesla's software testing strategy is evidently still failing to find major problems before they begin releasing the updates.

The current process is probably not going to be acceptable to the rapidly growing owner community, as Tesla ramps up to selling 500,000 cars per year.

And with the introduction of the new autopilot software, the risks will be greater for bugs to cause accidents.

And, while adding more software developers might help - there are other steps Tesla could take to improve the owner experience and quality of the software being released - such as providing notifications to owners of upcoming software releases and expanding the beta testing program by allowing owners to "opt-in" or "opt-out".

 

[tomas]

Since receiving my P85 two years ago (50K miles), owners have been asking (pleading) for Tesla to improve their software release process.

Owners have no indication as to when or if they'll see updates (there are still owners running on 6.0), and when the updates do come, there's usually no indication of what's in the update.

And, since we are still seeing the start-stop release process, due to critical bugs found during distribution, Tesla's software testing strategy is evidently still failing to find major problems before they begin releasing the updates.

The current process is probably not going to be acceptable to the rapidly growing owner community, as Tesla ramps up to selling 500,000 cars per year.

And with the introduction of the new autopilot software, the risks will be greater for bugs to cause accidents.

And, while adding more software developers might help - there are other steps Tesla could take to improve the owner experience and quality of the software being released - such as providing notifications to owners of upcoming software releases and expanding the beta testing program by allowing owners to "opt-in" or "opt-out".

Bob - you are correct, but I believe preaching to the choir. So I hope you have sent this plea to Tesla Motors, not just posted here hoping they would read.

I believe the most effective action here to register "constructive input" from owners would be for a level headed owner with world class software background who is passionate about this issue - but also sympathetic to the specifics of automotive application (meaning sufficient experience with similar applications to know this is NOT like iPhone) - to "mine" these threads for like-minded owners, jointly draft a concise (less than 2 pages... ideally less than 1 page) letter to Tesla Motors stating the issues and recommendations of group, and collect signatures (the more who sign on, the more impact it might make).

Anyone who thinks they might want to do this, plz PM me. I would be happy to participate in such a process, but not to lead it. Already went through this with a group of "A" battery owners, so know the drill. While we did not fully solve the "A" issue, I believe this effort to speak directly to Tesla with one voice put it on Tesla's radar more effectively than a bunch of posts on an owner forum expressing differing opinions.

With some work, I'm sure it would be possible to raise a couple hundred signatures if the proposal is reasonable.

Frankly, if we don't do this (and this is NOT directed at Bob who stated concern very articulately), we are just a bunch of voices whining into the wind.

 

[Jgdixon]

Weird, my car is in for some minor service work. So remote access is off.
But I just got a notification on my phone that an update is available.
Not sure if that's because they are installing it or if one was actually downloaded to the car OTA.
I already had .140 so I will be curious to see what it is.

 

[scaesare]

As yes, that much I knew. The connotation of "electronic controlled" as ecarfan stated implies something totally different. That much only applies to the autopilot cars.

What's changed with the new "electronic" brakes is that the assist is an electric motor, rather than from vacuum (via an electrically driven vacuum pump)... but the premise is the same.

 

[NOLA_Mike]

Since receiving my P85 two years ago (50K miles), owners have been asking (pleading) for Tesla to improve their software release process.

Owners have no indication as to when or if they'll see updates (there are still owners running on 6.0), and when the updates do come, there's usually no indication of what's in the update.

And, since we are still seeing the start-stop release process, due to critical bugs found during distribution, Tesla's software testing strategy is evidently still failing to find major problems before they begin releasing the updates.

The current process is probably not going to be acceptable to the rapidly growing owner community, as Tesla ramps up to selling 500,000 cars per year.

And with the introduction of the new autopilot software, the risks will be greater for bugs to cause accidents.

And, while adding more software developers might help - there are other steps Tesla could take to improve the owner experience and quality of the software being released - such as providing notifications to owners of upcoming software releases and expanding the beta testing program by allowing owners to "opt-in" or "opt-out".

Unfortunately, I believe the solution to this perceived problem will be that at some point in the future (when they ramp up to volumes you alluded to) Tesla will severely curtail both the number of firmware releases and the new features/content of the releases to existing owners. They will slowly morph into just another car manufacturer wherein you will get what you initially buy and expect little or no improvements going forward. Catering to the needs/abilities of the most common denominator instead of the "techies" that have been the majority of the early adopters.

If this does unfold this way I, for one, would likely then be looking elsewhere for my transportation needs.

 

[TexasEV]

Weird, my car is in for some minor service work. So remote access is off.
But I just got a notification on my phone that an update is available.
Not sure if that's because they are installing it or if one was actually downloaded to the car OTA.
I already had .140 so I will be curious to see what it is.

I've had that happen too. The service center had loaded an update but didn't go through the installation. I guess there wasn't enough time to do that and get the car back to me. I let it update overnight.

 

[NigelM]

Weird, my car is in for some minor service work. So remote access is off.
But I just got a notification on my phone that an update is available.
Not sure if that's because they are installing it or if one was actually downloaded to the car OTA.
I already had .140 so I will be curious to see what it is.

Depending on what exactly they are doing the Service Tech will flash the latest FW to your car regardless of whether you already have it. This sends a notification to your app even if the car is only connected via WiFi (or possibly just from Tesla mainframe).

 

[spentan]

Weird, my car is in for some minor service work. So remote access is off.
But I just got a notification on my phone that an update is available.
Not sure if that's because they are installing it or if one was actually downloaded to the car OTA.
I already had .140 so I will be curious to see what it is.

Definitely interested to see what this version number is.

Just got 140 at the service center on Sunday (from 139). I also got the update notification funnily enough.

 

[dyoreo]

On the Q4 call yesterday....

JB Straubel - Chief Technical Officer said ...

[FONT=&quot]" with the software release next mont"h. We should add a bunch of more functionality to the car. Right now, I’m really excited about the software release we have plan for next month - features and that are going to positively effect entire fleet and then of course we’ll add more autopilot capability.[/FONT]"