Expectations: 2014 Model S P110+ SuperSport

[Gizmotoy]

could very well be.... I was going from RC experience where charge and discharge capability was tied to internal resistance losses. Improvements in charge rates were typically coupled to improvements in discharge rates. The original batteries met the P85 current requirements which meant the door was open for pulling more current from the newer packs (my guess).

The increase in Supercharging rate was obviously hardware-related somehow (improved thermal management?), but the cells themselves and their chemistry supposedly didn't change, so I'd be surprised if the cell's actual charge and discharge rates changed. I suspect that the cells were physically capable of 120kW+ charging all along, but something else in the pack was holding them back, with the most likely situation being that Tesla had limited the charge rate to 90kW to keep temperatures within a suitable range. A revision to the battery pack was able to improve cooling, allowing for a faster charge.

From the cell's specs we know that the actual output power of the cells is likely somewhat less than the rated power of the P85 inverter/motor, but only Tesla really knows for sure. There could be some undiscovered magic in there. It could all be wrong and I can't say anything even remotely definitive, but the evidence is pretty strong, I think.

 

[Doug_G]

On the contrary, Tesla claimed the Panasonic cells changed.

 

[Gizmotoy]

On the contrary, Tesla claimed the Panasonic cells changed.

Did they? I don't recall seeing anything about that, and they were just quoted today as saying the cells had, at least, the same energy density between the two different versions. One was simply "optimized for the enhanced supercharger power" and the other pack was not. Do you have a link? Search turned up nothing about a chemistry change. Indeed the statement seems to indicate the cells are unchanged, but the packs were upgraded. Older Tesla's limited to 90kW super charging - Page 118

Edit: There was some speculation that there was a chemistry change here, but that was quashed quickly http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/24799-Older-Tesla-s-limited-to-90kW-super-charging

 

[ckessel]

Did they?

Jerome's exact response to me:

The battery packs in the early Model S have been built with cells and a power electronics architecture slightly different from the ones in the vehicles currently built. While the cells have the same energy density, the same reliability, and are backed with the same Tesla warranty; the battery packs we assembled early on had not been optimized for the enhanced supercharger power (which we developed later). Out of an abundance of caution, especially in light of the constant attacks Tesla has to face, we decided to maintain the supercharging rate in the early Model S at their initial 90 kW.

 

[Thomas_K]

ftp://ftp.nhtsa.dot.gov/MfrMail/ORG9130.pdf

 

[Discoducky]

ftp://ftp.nhtsa.dot.gov/MfrMail/ORG9130.pdf

Looks like dual motor is a certainty. Thanks for the PDF!

 

[Thomas_K]

Looks like dual motor is a certainty. Thanks for the PDF!

No problem.
Could they just be preparing the VIN code for the model X which we know will have 4wd? I know the pdf says Model S, but there is no Model X yet. At least not a production Model X.
I have no idea on the legality, but could Tesla add a model to the VIN decoder and add option for X on the 4th digit? I would not take the pdf as definite proof, but it is certainly a strong indicator.

 

[palmer_md]

This name keeps changing. I thought it was a P110+4 and not a P110++ or P110+SS. It will be interesting to see what they really call it.

 

[WarpedOne]

There was a very detailed analysis here on the board that concluded that in order to get any more HP out of the Model S, we were going to need a bigger battery.

That might be true but it still does not mean a second motor would not improve the performance.
MSP can output maximum power between 45 and 75 mph. Adding another motor wouldn't improve performance in this speed-range but it could improve performance under 45mph and above 75mph
Power/Torque chart: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23100&d=1370283832
Front motor could also improve regen while cornering and offer a bit longer track times before overheating.

 

[lolachampcar]

This name keeps changing. I thought it was a P110+4 and not a P110++ or P110+SS. It will be interesting to see what they really call it.

FAST?


Accel is grip limited. A second motor would nail the launch which is where MS has such an advantage.

 

[AlMc]

FAST?


Accel is grip limited. A second motor would nail the launch which is where MS has such an advantage.

No. FAST + :wink: LolaC: When you take a drive up the east coast and need to charge at the Delaware SC, let me know. Would like to have a ride in it! Thanks Al

 

[eepic]

This name keeps changing. I thought it was a P110+4 and not a P110++ or P110+SS. It will be interesting to see what they really call it.

the "Model S Roadster", lol

 

[Newbie]

What is the difference between H - high capacity lithium batteries and S - Standard ? See there is only these two options in the Vin for the new tesla VIN... ?

 

[eepic]

What is the difference between H - high capacity lithium batteries and S - Standard ? See there is only these two options in the Vin for the new tesla VIN... ?

I believe that would just be the 60 vs 85 kW battery

 

[3lectronica]

Not going to happen. Someone who wants to spend 150-200k on a car does not want a model which, in another variant, only costs 70K. If tesla wants to make an exclusive car they better get an updated Roadster with AWD and big battery.

Please see the Porsche Panamera:

Base model $78,100 - Panamera - All Panamera Models - All Porsche Models - Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG
Turbo S model $180,300 - Panamera Turbo S - All Panamera Models - All Porsche Models - Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG

 

[lolachampcar]

Yea, but nobody would ever buy a turbo Porsche anything ( )

 

[AlMc]

There will be a super S AWD. While I am not a member of the TM design team, it is not a question of 'if', the question is 'when'. Elon loves competition and I can see him wanting (needing?) to bring out something better/faster than a turbo Panamera.

 

[Hybris]

we dont need a model S AWD. we need model X

 

[lolachampcar]

Yes, I see your point but this thread is not about the X.

I do not need, nor have we ordered, a Model X. However, I do have the strong urge for a P+++++

 

[Raffy.Roma]

But today there has been no announcement concerning the Super AWD Model S. So I think that we should wait a little bit to get such an announcement.