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Elon: "Feature complete for full self driving this year"

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Yes. And Tesla defines what Full Self Driving is elsewhere (including when you buy it)

it does not mean L5 driving. At all.

It's a specific set of features- all currently sold as Level 2 driver aids.


Your insistence that "full self driving" means anything other than what Tesla says it does notwithstanding.

To be fair, when my 2018 was reserved Full Self Driving said:

"In the future, Model 3 will be capable of conducting trips with no action required by the person in the driver's seat"

And enhanced autopilot (which had to be purchased to get FSD) promised:
  • Auto Lane Change
  • Autosteer
  • Traffic-Aware Cruise Control
  • Autopark
  • Summon
Plus calling it Full Self Driving does kind of imply that it will drive itself.


But I agree, now it only promises the following:

Full Self-Driving Capability
  • Navigate on Autopilot: automatic driving from highway on-ramp to off-ramp including interchanges and overtaking slower cars.
  • Auto Lane Change: automatic lane changes while driving on the highway.
  • Autopark: both parallel and perpendicular spaces.
  • Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really.
  • Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control: assisted stops at traffic controlled intersections.
Upcoming:
  • Autosteer on city streets.
 
To be fair, when my 2018 was reserved Full Self Driving said:

"In the future, Model 3 will be capable of conducting trips with no action required by the person in the driver's seat"

Sure. And I've repeatedly pointed out the pre-march-2019 promise of FSD is vastly more expansive that what it being sold today.

But I agree, now it only promises the following:

Full Self-Driving Capability
  • Navigate on Autopilot: automatic driving from highway on-ramp to off-ramp including interchanges and overtaking slower cars.
  • Auto Lane Change: automatic lane changes while driving on the highway.
  • Autopark: both parallel and perpendicular spaces.
  • Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really.
  • Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control: assisted stops at traffic controlled intersections.
Upcoming:
  • Autosteer on city streets.


Right. Anybody who bought after the broad promise stopped being offered should not expect FSD to "mean" anything other than those specific listed features- and only promised at L2 of automation.

If Tesla CAN deliver more, they certainly would like to- but those buyers aren't promised more, even if the word "full" appears in the product name.
 
Huh? There is only one way to understand Full Self Driving in the English language.

Full Self Driving is not a Tesla trademark or brand.


It's the name of a specific set of features sold by Tesla right now.

It's a product name- you don't have to trademark it for it to have a specific meaning different from what "the english language" might make you think it means.


I feel like this has been explained, in some detail, with specific examples of other product names that also don't automatically "mean" what you think from just the words in the name, several times already in this thread.
 
Yep, I'm aware FSD as it stands right now is just an in progress suite of software/hardware.
I'm hoping it will mature down the road.

Oh yes, the features will definitely mature over time. It's just a question of how much. Will they get mature enough to be real full self-driving or will they mature but fall short of actual full self-driving? Will the features require new hardware or new sensors to achieve real full self-driving? Those are the big questions.
 
Oh yes, the features will definitely mature over time. It's just a question of how much. Will they get mature enough to be real full self-driving or will they mature but fall short of actual full self-driving? Will the features require new hardware or new sensors to achieve real full self-driving? Those are the big questions.

My opinion is that they’ll get to very solid automatic traffic control stops/starts as long as there are no turns involved. The current test feature is already very impressive and is reliable even in extremely complex situations. I could see this happening in summer of 2020.

I think they’ll get auto lane changes working in urban environments too. Manually initiating lane changes in the city is already quite smooth. Maybe late 2020 for this.

I think they’ll get to level 3 highway driving in a single lane. The car is essentially safely capable of this today. Sometimes it’s herky jerky but I’ve never seen unsafe behavior in my car in Southern California and we have plenty of edge cases. Maybe late 2020 for highway level 3.

Then of course they’ll continue to refine navigate on autopilot, summon, smart summon, and autopark to the point that the features approach usefulness. One could argue that NoA is nearing that goalpost today.

Is that full self driving? It’s certainly not what they showed us at the launch of HW 2.0 or at autonomy investor day but it might be enough to get them out of legal hot water with customers who bought the package under more recent verbiage.

I would personally be satisfied with the above suite for my $7,000. I would love to largely ignore my car on the highway and have it react correctly to lights and stop signs.

The glue holding all the magic together though, the merges and turns and yields and anticipating pedestrians and all that...that I’m not so sure about. If they can truly pull that off it will be a huge industry upset but I’ll remain happily surprised if they ever get that off the ground, not angry that I never got it if they fail.
 
Sure. And I've repeatedly pointed out the pre-march-2019 promise of FSD is vastly more expansive that what it being sold today.

It's a long thread, I'll take your word for it that you have.

I still think that "Full Self Driving" is a pretty lousy name for a set of features that doesn't fully drive your car by itself regardless of what the fine print says post-march-2019 but I get your point.
 
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It's a long thread, I'll take your word for it that you have.

I still think that "Full Self Driving" is a pretty lousy name for a set of features that doesn't fully drive your car by itself regardless of what the fine print says post-march-2019 but I get your point.
Similar argument can be had with using the term Autopilot for their ADAS (yes I know it is technically correct, most folk don't make the distinction).
 
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Similar argument can be had with using the term Autopilot for their ADAS (yes I know it is technically correct, most folk don't make the distinction).

I always thought autopilot was something that kept you on a steady course without intervention. For cars that is basically cruise control and lane hold. FSD actually uses the term full in front of self driving which implies that it fully drives by itself. I can see your point but I really don't think it is apples to apples personally... I think the term Full Self Driving is way more misleading than even the most liberal interpretation of the term autopilot.
 
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By the way, the SAE actually discourages the use of the term "self-driving" or "full self-driving" because it is deemed too imprecise. Here is what the SAE document says:

7.1 Autonomous, Driving Modes(s), Self-Driving, Unmanned, Robotic
Vernacular terms such as those above are sometimes used—inconsistently and confusingly—to characterize driving automation systems and/or vehicles equipped with them. Because automation is the use of electronic or mechanical devices to replace human labor, based on the Oxford English Dictionary, automation (modified by “driving” to provide context) is the appropriate term for systems that perform part or all of the DDT. The use of other terms can lead to confusion, misunderstanding, and diminished credibility.

7.1.3 Self-Driving
The meaning of this term can vary based on unstated assumptions about the meaning of driving and driver. It is variously used to refer to situations in which no driver is present, to situations in which no user is performing the DDT, and to situations in which a driving automation system is performing any part of the DDT.
 
This set some expectations:

Most definitely. I remember watching that video and being so incredibly excited. This was before I became a Tesla owner. But that video made me believe that Tesla had FSD. I wanted a Tesla because I thought I was going to get a full self-driving car. I love my Model 3 and I use AP every day but if anyone wonders why I am so sour on Tesla's FSD approach now, it is because, almost 4 years later, AP is nothing like that video.
 
Yes. And Tesla defines what Full Self Driving is elsewhere (including when you buy it)

it does not mean L5 driving. At all.

It's a specific set of features- all currently sold as Level 2 driver aids.


Your insistence that "full self driving" means anything other than what Tesla says it does notwithstanding.

And the real reason for my comment way back was NOT to create a situation of right vs wrong, who has read the manual or who is smarter than others. I only wanted to point out that they need to smooth out the steering when it's not an emergency turn. (By the way, I have a Masters Degree in computer technology & read the entire manual before I even received the car.)
 
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