Dark morning in America - talk of Model S seems - frivolous

[McRat]

You need to do some reading about Iran's electoral system.

A woman cannot leave Iran unless her husband or father gives her permission. You go to jail (or get a public beating) for not wearing the Hijab correctly in public.

Iran is considered progressive by the Taliban, I will cede that. So many Democrats in the USA are cool with that, which makes it scary.

 

[Electroman]

"Cosmacelf: So, go ahead and tie yourself in knots and make yourself depressed over this, but it is how the world works"

Well said.. most of the folks that are protesting are living in some Utopian ivory towers. Every country needs to take steps to protect itself and there will be some collateral damage.


Every wave of immigrants - Irish, Jews, Japanese, Chinese, Indians, Filipinos, Mexicans have all added something positive to the fabric of US. [I will not complete the rest of the statement... leave it your imagination..]

 

[Carl]

The U.S. Turned Away These Refugees in 1939—and 254 Were Murdered by the Nazis

My mother came to the US as a refugee. She was born in the Soviet Union near the beginning of WWII. When the Soviets advanced on Germany at the end of WWII, my grandfather took his family, and followed the Soviet army escaping the country. They wound up at the end of the war in a displaced persons camp. They were sponsored to the US as refugees.

Someone managed to disagree with / dislike this post. Crazy.

I am not a U.S. citizen. I do happen to have been educated (outside of my home country, so always as a "stranger" everywhere) in international schools where U.S. teachers and students were a majority. Afterwards, as a teen, I lived quite some time in communist Czechoslovakia. Both experiences made me sure of one thing: the U.S. was the country to be admired most: the only democratic country to never have annulled or even postponed an election (even during wars - no European country has that track record), the country which could never possibly have religious wars (of course no European country can say the same), the country which was open to immigrants of all nations (and actually always understood it was benefiting from that), the country which had such a great democratic foundation that never a sitting president would aspire to more than eight years of power (even if that was not strictly forbidden by any written rule - and FDR did do so, but that was exceptional and there was still each time a real election), and, first and foremost, the country where the balance of powers is such that, in any event, a president could not do anything contrary to the (superbly written) U.S. constitution, nor anything contrary to what is a prerogative of the legislative or judicial branches of power.

I really hope I am still right in admiring the U.S. so much. I suppose the following months will tell!

 

[Cosmacelf]

Regarding whether it's a "Muslim ban",
from GIULIANI: Trump asked me how to do a Muslim ban 'legally'

GIULIANI: Trump asked me how to do a Muslim ban 'legally'

• Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani told Fox in an interview on Saturday that he helped draft President Donald Trump's "extreme vetting" executive order after Trump called him and asked how to do a "Muslim ban" "legally."
  
  "When he first announced it, he said 'Muslim ban,'" Giuliani, who served as the vice chairman of Trump's transition team, told Fox. "He called me up. He said 'put a commission together. Show me the right way to do it legally.'"
  
  Giuliani then put a commission together with Judge Mike Mukasey, Congressman Mike McCaul, Rep. Pete King, and a "whole group of very expert lawyers on this," he said.
  
  "We focused on, instead of religion, on danger," Giuliani continued. "The areas of the world that create danger for us. Which is a factual basis, not a religious basis. Perfectly legal, perfectly sensible. And that's what the ban is based on."
  
  Experts have noted that the countries included in the ban — Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia and Yemen — seem arbitrary, and do not include countries that have posed serious terror threats in the past such as Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and the United Arab Emirates.
  
  The order cites the September 11, 2001 terror attacks three times as justification for the ban, but the 9/11 hijackers were from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Lebanon — none of which were included on the list of banned countries.
  
  Trump insisted on Saturday that the order is "not a Muslim ban."
  
  "It's not a Muslim ban," Trump told reporters in the Oval Office at the White House. "It's working out very nicely. You see it at the airports, you see it all over."

And if you read the article carefully, or even better listen to Giuliani himself (2:58 mark in this video:

), you find that Giuliani changed Trump's mind from a "marketing phrase" Muslim ban, to a dangerous country ban. The fact of the matter is that there are much bigger Muslim countries not affected by this temporary travel ban (e.g. Indonesia).

 

[Cosmacelf]

Instead of doing this silently, DT did the usual pomp and show and now facing this meaningless backlash.

Doing it publicly, very publicly, is intentional. It is putting the world on notice that the US is putting America First. As the world's most dynamic and large economy, biggest military, plentiful resources, outsized share of scientists, and trend setter in many cultural areas, Trump is betting that the US does not need to bow down to world opinion. It isn't as if MOST of the rest of the world had a great opinion of the US anyways. You can't damage a reputation that is already damaged. And it won't matter. The world will continue to deal with the US because it has to. People are fond of saying that the US can't bury it's head in the sand and ignore the rest of the world. Well, the opposite is true too.

 

[Vitold]

If executive branch has so much power - it makes me wonder why Obama did not do more and left much to legislative and judiciary to decide.

I think the next step will be to figure out which federal judges oppose current administration and replace them.

Once done Republicans will control all three branches. This would be akin a dictatorship - no?

 

[NikeWings]

Instead of doing this silently, DT did the usual pomp and show and now facing this meaningless backlash.

Doing it publicly, very publicly, is intentional. It is putting the world on notice that the US is putting America First.

If it was the favored pomp or look-at-me staging, there wouldn't have been nearly the backlash that ensued. No, this was war college 101 the element of 'surprise' and it pissed off the world. It was tactical and sent a proverbial shot across the proverbial bow that DJT has no intention to telegraph US policies or actions or seek permission from the world. He is effectively saying, hear that Mexico, you think I won't build a wall. Hear that China, you think I won't renegotiate trade policy? Hear that Iran, you think I won't reconsider the nucleur agreement and sanctions while you force our sailors to their knees? If he enacted a measure that was 100% acceptable, people would be cheering in the streets. But no president has pleased 100% of the people, 100% of the time. And he is no exception but at least he's got a spine.

And lest anyone thinks me cold and uncaring. The glitches in the execution of this temprary policy are very very unfortunate, and possibly unacceptable (we only know the media spin right now). The Saudi thing is indeed bothersome, unless more surprises are up his sleeve. I am empathetic to the innocents caught in the cross-fire. It seems everything we do (even the good stuff) has such massive tentacles, that unintended consequences arise. During the Bill Clinton era, I was caught in a rift between Taiwan and the US over comments made to China which caused me to overrstay my US passport expiry date. Taiwan finally booted me out but upon arriving in the US, to my shock I was put on the first flight back to Taipei where I was met with handcuffs for trying to re- enter on an expired US passport with an expired visa and sat in a crummy cell for 3 days until the US consulat delivered cash. (US dollars only accepted lol) I was in my 20s, a female and never saw another while there, and I was very frightened. Anyway, stuff happens every day, and only if the entire 747 was turned away, would it have made the news.

Unfortunate things do happen; its frustrating and hurtful. But at least I know our country has a backbone to enforce its constitution whether being on the right side or the offending side. Now the world knows too.

 

[Vitold]

-

[...]And he is no exception but at least he's got a spine.

[...]The Saudi thing is indeed bothersome, [...]

Now the world knows too.

hmm...

 

[NikeWings]

-
hmm...

Convenient snips vitold and cute emoji.....but unfortunately I am unable to agree with or disagree with you.
I welcome the chance to understand your position and/or alter my prior POV, but "hmmmm" is a bit difficult to fathom.
Help me understand your point?

 

[wk057]

So... electric cars...

 

[deonb]

Convenient snips vitold and cute emoji.....but unfortunately I am unable to agree with or disagree with you.
I welcome the chance to understand your position and/or alter my prior POV, but "hmmmm" is a bit difficult to fathom.
Help me understand your point?

I believe his point was that if President Trump really had a spine, he would have included Saudi Arabia in the list.

 

[Electroman]

I believe his point was that if President Trump really had a spine, he would have included Saudi Arabia in the list.

My response is how do we know Saudi Arabia would not be in the next list? Consider this as a shot in the bow.. asses the ramifications and then take next step.

 

[deonb]

My response is how do we know Saudi Arabia would not be in the next list? Consider this as a shot in the bow.. asses the ramifications and then take next step.

I think the chances are better that Canada would be next on the list.

 

[ABC2D]

@calisnow - what is the point of posting something and not participating?

 

[Jack6591]

First they came for the Mexicans, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Mexican.

Then they came for the Muslims, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Muslim.

Then they came for the Chinese, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not Chinese.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Sure, it's plagiarism, but the ring of truth........

I believe it's time to speak out in loud and clear voices.

 

[Canuck]

Just some food for thought ... from someone I never thought I'd agree with re policy. (To be fair, he probably never thought we'd be in agreement on anything, either. )

Dick Cheney Thinks Trump's Muslim Ban Is 'Against Everything We Stand For'

Well to be fair, he was for gay marriage -- but only because of his daughter.

If you understand What ISIS Really Wants, then you understand why the ban is so wrong on a political level. Of course, it's heartbreakenly wrong on a personal level but on the political level it plays right into ISIS's hand. They truly believe in the caliphate which comes after the epic battle of east vs. west. What is being done is used to confirm their beliefs which then serves to recruit more members. They are not crazy or delusional as people like to think (well, at least not in the traditional sense of those words). Rather, as stated in the Atlantic article, which everyone needs to read to understand what is really going on...

"Fascism, Orwell continued, is

psychologically far sounder than any hedonistic conception of life … Whereas Socialism, and even capitalism in a more grudging way, have said to people “I offer you a good time,” Hitler has said to them, “I offer you struggle, danger, and death,” and as a result a whole nation flings itself at his feet … We ought not to underrate its emotional appeal.

Nor, in the case of the Islamic State, its religious or intellectual appeal. That the Islamic State holds the imminent fulfillment of prophecy as a matter of dogma at least tells us the mettle of our opponent. It is ready to cheer its own near-obliteration, and to remain confident, even when surrounded, that it will receive divine succor if it stays true to the Prophetic model. Ideological tools may convince some potential converts that the group’s message is false, and military tools can limit its horrors. But for an organization as impervious to persuasion as the Islamic State, few measures short of these will matter, and the war may be a long one, even if it doesn’t last until the end of time."

This is why Obama was reluctant to even say "Radical Islamic Terror". Because they wanted him to say it, and he wouldn't play into their hands.

 

[X Fan]

And let's not even touch on the fact that Saudi Arabia wasn't included in the ban, even though the majority of 9/11 terrorists have come from that country.

Oh right. Some people have business interests there.

The European murderous violence and attacks on women have not come from Saudi men. Thus, perhaps we should give DT some credit for determing where violence is emanating from TODAY VS 2001. It's important to not waste resources fighting yesterday's war.

FWIW: Saudis are an issue globally with their sponsor of mosques around the world that are incubators of hate against the West. However, they have cannily sprinkled money around the world with lobbyists of all major parties....so do a little research and see who has received money in U.K., France, Germany and particularly the US before you paint Trump as the bad guy. It's a Dem and Repub issue.

 

[Bangor Bob]

Saudis [...] have cannily sprinkled money around the world with lobbyists of all major parties

They also buy a LOT of weapons from US manufacturers. I can imagine the situation being different if they didn't do that. The US doesn't actually need their oil at the moment.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I stayed silent on this matter, but then I have read some accounts on how border agents were threatening green card holders to get them to permanently sign away their permanent resident status (and the administration saying the order does apply to green card holders). This is quite disingenuous as it allows the administration to claim that no green card holder has been barred yet: which is true, given they pressured them to sign away their green card!

Green card holders are legal immigrants. This kind of thing is completely un-American and completely goes against the values this country was founded on. I was one of the ones that thought being pragmatic (like Elon is) would work, but seeing this really made me fear for my country. It's only 9 days into the Trump presidency and we already have things like this.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Guiliani in his Fox interview yesterday (which I posted a YouTube link to up thread), said that the Saudis got the message last year and are cooperating fully with the US in screening and ferreting out terrorists. He said this is not the same Saudis of ten years ago.