Cybertruck Steer By Wire Safety Concerns and Details

[Skotty]

I'm curious as to what details we have on the Cybertruck steer by wire system.

Do you all trust steer by wire?

I don't trust steer by wire systems. Electrical systems can die suddenly, and I don't want my steering dying suddenly while I'm driving. In my 8 years driving Teslas, I have had multiple different electrical system failures, but no physical failures, and that experience generally met my expectations. Most notably on this discussion, I have actually had the power steering system fail while driving my Model S, but I could still steer the vehicle safely to a stop with some extra effort because the physical connection was still there. This power steering failure is not the origin of my concern; my concerns about steer by wire pre-date that incident; it was therefore instead validation of my concerns.

Now, I can be sold on steer by wire, but I would need details on how it has been made safe, through redundancy and/or over engineering. But when it comes to Tesla, their mantra is no unnecessary excess and the best part is no part. I therefore expect they would have been resistant to adding any redundancy or safety margin on the steer by wire system.

Do we have any details on how the Cybertruck steer by wire system works? Have they done any work with it to make it resistant to electrical failures? What do we know about that so far?

 

[buckets0fun]

I don't trust steer by wire systems

when was the last time you flew in an airplane? ridden a train?

This has been discussed at length. many redundancies are in place here and in fact everyone will be using it when the robotaxi comes out.

 

[EVFamilyGrins]

Steer-by-wire is also currently used in trucks and buses that have rear wheel steering to control the rear wheels since it is not practical to do it via physical connection.

There is redundancy: A) there are 2 motors to power the front steering, so if one malfunctions you can still steer. B) redundant communication lines (wire). not sure if it's single or multiple redundancy but Munro will surely tell us once they tear down

 

[outdoors]

I'm curious as to what details we have on the Cybertruck steer by wire system.

Do you all trust steer by wire?

I don't trust steer by wire systems. Electrical systems can die suddenly, and I don't want my steering dying suddenly while I'm driving. In my 8 years driving Teslas, I have had multiple different electrical system failures, but no physical failures, and that experience generally met my expectations. Most notably on this discussion, I have actually had the power steering system fail while driving my Model S, but I could still steer the vehicle safely to a stop with some extra effort because the physical connection was still there. This power steering failure is not the origin of my concern; my concerns about steer by wire pre-date that incident; it was therefore instead validation of my concerns.

Now, I can be sold on steer by wire, but I would need details on how it has been made safe, through redundancy and/or over engineering. But when it comes to Tesla, their mantra is no unnecessary excess and the best part is no part. I therefore expect they would have been resistant to adding any redundancy or safety margin on the steer by wire system.

Do we have any details on how the Cybertruck steer by wire system works? Have they done any work with it to make it resistant to electrical failures? What do we know about that so far?

I am looking for the details you mention in the title. You seem to have none about the Cybertruck. I get the concerns. Yet as above you may find you experience steer by wire in other areas of life.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Infiniti did have a a steer by wire system with a mechanical backup. Apparently it was quite jarring when it failed and switched to the backup system!

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a1946681/infiniti-recalls-q50-sedans-over-steer-wire-system/

It will certainly be interesting to see if Tesla’s system proves to be more reliable. Personally I would wait to install the latest software update on a Cybertruck. See FSD beta AEB bug as an example of what can happen if you’re too eager to hit the update button.

 

[buckets0fun]

Infiniti did have a a steer by wire system with a mechanical backup. Apparently it was quite jarring when it failed and switched to the backup system!

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a1946681/infiniti-recalls-q50-sedans-over-steer-wire-system/

It will certainly be interesting to see if Tesla’s system proves to be more reliable. Personally I would wait to install the latest software update on a Cybertruck. See FSD beta AEB bug as an example of what can happen if you’re too eager to hit the update button.

There is no physical link on the CT. When the truck shrank, the frunk got smaller, thermals took over (and delayed launch), no room for traditional steering shaft/column.

 

[Daniel in SD]

There is no physical link on the CT. When the truck shrank, the frunk got smaller, thermals took over (and delayed launch), no room for traditional steering shaft/column.

Yeah, the best part is no part!
Seriously though it is possible to make a reliable steer by wire system. Only time will tell if Tesla managed to do it. I would take some comfort in the fact that electric power steering systems could have software bugs that are just as bad and they are now in almost every new car with no issues.
Does anyone know if Tesla is making the system themselves?

 

[buckets0fun]

Yeah, the best part is no part!
Seriously though it is possible to make a reliable steer by wire system. Only time will tell if Tesla managed to do it. I would take some comfort in the fact that electric power steering systems could have software bugs that are just as bad and they are now in almost every new car with no issues.
Does anyone know if Tesla is making the system themselves?

You realize that AP has used a pair of electric motors in the rack for assist and backup, for years now… right? Ones that could yank that wheel out of your hands without concern, especially if a software bug was there.

Fairly sure tesla and their rack manufacturer are more than fine with selling a mass produced vehicle and not stress on liability (read: reliability) due to failures.

These mole hills are crazy. It’s almost like they could be mountains.

 

[Daniel in SD]

You realize that AP has used a pair of electric motors in the rack for assist and backup, for years now… right? Ones that could yank that wheel out of your hands without concern, especially if a software bug was there.

Fairly sure tesla and their rack manufacturer are more than fine with selling a mass produced vehicle and not stress on liability (read: reliability) due to failures.

These mole hills are crazy. It’s almost like they could be mountains.

That’s exactly the point I was making, electric power steering could easily steer you off a cliff.
Pretty sure there’s only one motor in the Model 3 rack. Most have two control units for robotaxi operation but sometimes they only have one due to chip supply issues.

Tesla cut a steering component from some cars to deal with chip shortage, sources say

Tesla omitted one of two electronic control units in the cars' electrical power assisted steering systems. Tens of thousands of cars are affected, sources say.

www.cnbc.com

Anyway, we’ll see if it works. If there is a disaster I bet it will be due to a haphazard software update.

 

[tashtibet]

horse carriage a perfect fit!

 

[m73b54]

I don't worry about reliability. I worry about artificial steering feedback and constantly changing steering ratio. All these variable steering systems have been on the market for many years and haven't made a revolution to say at least.

 

[Skotty]

when was the last time you flew in an airplane? ridden a train?

This has been discussed at length. many redundancies are in place here and in fact everyone will be using it when the robotaxi comes out.

Airplanes are a completely different matter. First, they are too big for physical linkages. It's not like there is a choice to choose riding on a plane that uses physical steering controls. Second, while I haven't personally inspected the design and manufacturing of the passenger jets I ride on to confirm, it is common knowledge that they use redundancy in their design. Third, and perhaps most importantly, is they are a proven technology.

The problem with Cybertruck is that Tesla's steer by wire is not proven technology yet, and I wouldn't trust Tesla not to cut corners in the name of efficiency. I'm not sure their focus on passenger safety extends to their electrical system designs. Tesla needs to do more to convince me that their steer by wire systems will be reliable, or at least more reliable than my Tesla power steering that has failed on me in the past.

Anyway, I thought maybe some folks here would have details on the Cybertruck steer by wire design, or references to other materials with such information. I'm looking to be convinced that Tesla's implementation is safe. Otherwise, I will need to see a long track record of it not failing, which means I won't trust it for a good 10 years or so.

 

[buckets0fun]

Tesla needs to do more to convince me

They don’t. They won’t. They don’t care.

Plenty of people will not ask for IP in order to purchase a vehicle. Tesla likely has the rack made by a company that makes it to a certain ISO.

You’re looking way too far into this. For every 100 of you, there are 100,000 that will pony up.

 

[Skotty]

They don’t. They won’t. They don’t care.

Plenty of people will not ask for IP in order to purchase a vehicle. Tesla likely has the rack made by a company that makes it to a certain ISO.

You’re looking way too far into this. For every 100 of you, there are 100,000 that will pony up.

I don't think you get it. I don't care about the 99,999 other people. I'm not even suggesting that Tesla steer by wiring isn't safe. Just that I don't currently trust it myself, and would like to be convinced that it is safe. To that end, does anyone have a reference or information on their design? That's what I'm asking. Also, I was just curious if others had similar concerns.

 

[Daniel in SD]

The proof is in the pudding. Wait a year and if it hasn’t failed for anyone then it’s not going to significantly change the safety of the vehicle.

 

[buckets0fun]

The proof is in the pudding. Wait a year and if it hasn’t failed for anyone then it’s not going to significantly change the safety of the vehicle.

Yeah I mean, if you’re stressed on new tech, don’t buy bleeding edge?

As suggested above, wait. Settle your nerves with pictures of all the accidents and posts from owners that you could ever read, prior to your purchase.

 

[Ami-Sven]

I only say: Boeing 737 Max

 

[Ami-Sven]

Mercedes used to have Brake by Wire and went back to the mechanical linkage, because of reliability reasons. The idea is great and perfect for commercial aircraft But aviation is a completely different animal, cost wise as well.

 

[buckets0fun]

I only say: Boeing 737 Max

You’ll have to elaborate if you’re trying to bait anyone.

Door plugs? no bolts? use your words.

 

[buckets0fun]

Mercedes used to have Brake by Wire and went back to the mechanical linkage, because of reliability reasons. The idea is great and perfect for commercial aircraft But aviation is a completely different animal, cost wise as well.

SBC was trash, they went back to traditional due to the level of failures and faults in that early 2000s system. I’m sure in the last 20+ yrs the tech has advanced… enough for MBZ to use brake by wire in their F1 cars.