Thats what the thread title should say, at least in my opinion. I dont feel so strongly about it that I simply change it (as I do when I see thread titles that feel egregious to me), but this thread title should be something like " Model Y gas savings calculation not Relevant for Me", which is a quite different discussion than "bogus".
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Bogus "Gas Savings"
- Thread starter rwiegand
- Start date
Thats what the thread title should say, at least in my opinion. I dont feel so strongly about it that I simply change it (as I do when I see thread titles that feel egregious to me), but this thread title should be something like " Model Y gas savings calculation not Relevant for Me", which is a quite different discussion than "bogus".
Roughly 2/3 of the couple dozen people I know personally who have purchased a 3/Y in the last several years have been replacing a Prius. So that actually does seem like a vehicle that people very much regard as comparable. (At least in terms of virtue signaling in our community 
) No one in my acquaintance with a Range Rover or Porsche has swapped it for a 3/Y.
Early on the BMW/Mercedes guys were trading their cars in on Model S Teslas. I don't know of anyone doing that recently; they seem to be going back to electric BMW models, Lucids, and Porsches.
) No one in my acquaintance with a Range Rover or Porsche has swapped it for a 3/Y.Early on the BMW/Mercedes guys were trading their cars in on Model S Teslas. I don't know of anyone doing that recently; they seem to be going back to electric BMW models, Lucids, and Porsches.
Fair enough. I now regret the use of the inflammatory word. "Incorrect for many people" would be more accurate.
gtae07
Member
Well said.
In my case the number in the app is pretty close if not understated, but I'm coming from a 2005 F150 and 2014 Odyssey, and only pay about $0.04/kWh overnight including taxes and fees. The massive savings helped me justify the car...
I bought my Model S in 2014 and was reading the old forum on Tesla's site through 2013. Back then, it was very obvious that the buyers were coming from two totally opposite camps. There were a lot of Porsche owners who wanted the performance and massive instant torque, and then you had the Prius owners who had just been waiting for a really long time for a practical electric car to exist.
But yes, now that it's much more broad with the 3 and Y, it's not so obvious what kind of car people would be coming from.
Yeah the data the Tesla app uses is skewed toward the high end to maximize cost savings without a doubt. My regional fuel cost in the Tesla app is currently $4.53/gallon - whereas our average price according to Gasbuddy in my area is currently $3.59 per gallon. Tesla skews the numbers without a doubt. I also use the Tessie app - in which I can control the MPG and fuel costs within the app for a much more accurate comparison. I currently have it set to $3.50 for comparison's sake - and 25MPG vs the 22MPG in the Tesla app. Even with the more accurate data using Tessie - I'm still way ahead since we charge at home for around 10 cents/kwh. Tessie also charts energy added vs used to account for losses during charging.
Get yourself a sense energy monitor and you can track exactly how much energy you put into your car at home. This is way more accurate if you primarily go home charging.
davewill
Active Member
Meh. I've watched multiple car companies and EV charging companies do the exact same thing. Short of letting you put in your own gas price and the MPG of your chosen comparison vehicle, this is pretty much what they're left with. I'm just glad they've done as good as job as they have with the utility rates and tracking the cost of EV charging.
Besides, real EVers aren't worried about GAS vehicle comparisons.
Not to mention all of the silly "number of trees", barrels of oil, pounds of CO2, etc... that I've watched various companies try to do.
Besides, real EVers aren't worried about GAS vehicle comparisons.
Not to mention all of the silly "number of trees", barrels of oil, pounds of CO2, etc... that I've watched various companies try to do.
I traded in my Prius for a Tesla Roadster. Does that mean that they make for an apt comparison?
The app does not assert that those are savings you see. It asserts that those savings are typical in your region.
Just as the EPA stickers that show ‘fuel savings’ for cars. It is based on averages, not your specific situation.
Please don’t get frustrated because a screwdriver isn’t a hammer. Don’t try to measure weight with a ruler
I'm taking the opposite viewpoint. I want the charge stats to show the biggest savings possible regardless of the truth. It helps me rationalize the car to my better half. 
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
I don't dispute your comments. It simply reminded me of something else. I don't consider it marketing crap. It appears they are doing the same thing as companies that sell refrigerators, TVs and other electrical appliances. They state an average annual rate that likely doesn't apply to everyone and then in the small print say it will vary depending on your location. Thus, I pay no attention to those numbers either
In our case where we only charge at home on the Tesla where we have to pay for supercharging, we pay only 11 cents per kWh. Some people around the nation pay even less and some people pay a lot more as we all know. When I lived in California and paid the highest tier rate of 42 cents per kWh, I didn't save much of any money compared to our ICE SUV that used regular gasoline. Now that I pay 1/4 that amount for electricity, the marketing numbers they quote have gone from wrongly low to wrongly high. And yes, if I were to have to go on a long trip down to San Diego to see our son in that car, I'm going to get screwed on electricity charges.
So bottom line, I actually agree with you that the calculations are stupid unless there is a way to enter custom numbers of which I may not be aware.
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How much do you pay per kWh for electricity? Doing the math if you are averaging 3.5 miles per kWh (285 wh/mile) would mean your electricity costs around 37 cents per kWh. I think the Tesla app uses national averages for gasoline and electricity, and it is using 16 cents per kWh. This may change over time as costs go up and down, I know the gasoline cost they use goes up and down over time.
Keith
The electricity prices can be customized though. It would be great if it had access to accurate gas price information... e.g. gasbuddy.com, but that's crowdsourced and not always accurate either. If it did allow customization, it'd have to allow the price of gas and at least your average gas efficiency to be input... but even then would not be super accurate. And would anyone take the time to update it regularly when gas prices fluctuate?
I charge my M3 standard range at home in Florida 99% of the time, so my costs have been running about 4 cents per mile (electric rate is 11.45 cents per KWH). My wifes Kia gets about 26 MPG and gas is running $3.65 or so for about 14 cents per mile. In 15,000 miles I figure I save about $1,500 per year or a little over $3,000 in the 27 months I've had the car.....I'll take it
I charge my M3 standard range at home in Florida 99% of the time, so my costs have been running about 4 cents per mile (electric rate is 11.45 cents per KWH). My wifes Kia gets about 26 MPG and gas is running $3.65 or so for about 14 cents per mile. In 15,000 miles I figure I save about $1,500 per year or a little over $3,000 in the 27 months I've had the car.....I'll take it
Not everyone's gas and electricity rates will pan out to that, but at $1,500 a year in savings, the world's most fun commuter car is not too far from the cheapest (at least for operational costs).
OxBrew
Active Member
We save from slightly more to a lot more than the app shows, compared to a 3.6L Outback (Premium gas, 20mpg real world) with 60% of our charging at home at .09/ kWh. Last I checked. Gas was expensive. Not looking anymore, I don't care.
With the slightly higher insurance, and tires (kept popping them on rocks at the cabin, needed all 4 after the last one at 25k miles, other 3 were too far down) probably honestly a wash, which is fine with me. Plus now we have about a 5% range hit with the new all season tires.
It would be interesting to be able to add fuel prices, mpg, other maintenance. But wait! I did all that in a spreadsheet for 5 years before we got the Y. Pretty easy to work out for yourself. I was able to use 8 years of actual annual cost of the Outback, so pretty clear comparison.
With the slightly higher insurance, and tires (kept popping them on rocks at the cabin, needed all 4 after the last one at 25k miles, other 3 were too far down) probably honestly a wash, which is fine with me. Plus now we have about a 5% range hit with the new all season tires.
It would be interesting to be able to add fuel prices, mpg, other maintenance. But wait! I did all that in a spreadsheet for 5 years before we got the Y. Pretty easy to work out for yourself. I was able to use 8 years of actual annual cost of the Outback, so pretty clear comparison.
This sums up my sentiments quite nicely. Let's not forget about the volatility of gas prices as well as the environmental impact.
I do still have an ICE passenger van that I'd very happily trade for an EV if they actually made any, so I still have to buy the liquid death from time to time. We drive it as little as possible.
fiehlsport
Tire Guy
Yeah, CT is apparently in the same boat. Got a friend up in New Haven and due to natural gas prices they are paying $.30/kwh for electricity - apparently because a good bit of CT power generation is dependent upon natural gas - which has gone up a lot since Russian gas was banned from the market. That and apparently only US flagged ships with US personnel can transport NG to US ports which also increases NG prices quite a bit at least in certain areas. Meanwhile in Delaware three hours away we're only paying 10-13 cents/kwh in comparison.
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