BMS-029 - Tesla Must Do Better

I am an early adopter of Tesla. I bought my Model S in Feb of 2015, laying out close to 90k for a car – which is something I would have never dreamed of doing previously. But I believed in the mission, I believed in the car – so I traded in my Kia Optima and subjected myself to this grand experiment. This was the days where the masses really didn’t know what Tesla was – I would get stopped in parking lots and get strange looks on the road – and I gave makeshift mini-presentations about how this was the future of transportation.

Fast forward 8 years and 3 months later…. After Supercharging I received an error on my screen that said “maximum battery charge level reduced” and gave the code BMS_029. After 8 years and 85k miles of very happy ownership – dealing with the usual door handle replacements, window regulator breaks, new MCU, new front dash screen etc – I now realized I was faced with something much more serious.

I planned on keeping my car indefinitely. I love the car. I have never loved a car, but I do love this car.

3 months after my battery warranty expired, I have this error that is going to limit me to about 35% charge, and from everything I read online it is basically a battery death sentence. The Tesla equivalent of the “blue screen of death”. I went to the Tesla Service App, and explained the error and a screenshot – and got back a 15k estimate. No phone call, no options, no offer of repair, no diagnostics - just give us 15k and we will fix it.

Thank goodness for the online community. I found a Facebook group dedicated to this, and lots of help at Teslamotorsclub. I am not an engineer. I am simply a normal consumer. I feel like that needs to be said because if not for the amateur Tesla engineers out there, and aftermarket technicians – I feel like there would be zero information about this because Tesla isn’t talking or explaining. They simply text you back an estimate in an app, with one option – pay us or your car is dead – bricked.

So after doing lots of reading online – and talking to several experts – these are the options:

• Error removal through software. There are people out there who will (for about $500), simply remove the error so that you can go back to where you were the day before this dreaded error showed up.
• Pay anywhere from 8k to 9.5K to ReCell or another 3rd party for a remanufactured battery. You will get a battery pack from a car that they previously replaced, and remanufactured for you. Your battery will then be remanufactured and sold to someone else. You will get a battery pack that is dated anywhere from 2012 to 2015 and a 2 year 25k warranty.
• Pay Tesla about 15k for exactly what ReCell does, but get a 4 year 50k warranty.
• Buy a brand new 90KWH battery from Tesla for about 19k, and get a 4 year 50k warranty.

Option 1 seems like the absolute worst option. It seems like this is widely advised against, as this simply removes the error but doesn’t fix the root cause – which could be catastrophic. This part seems obvious. But hiding under the surface is a very big problem for Tesla – and for Tesla owners – the resale market can never be trusted. When I got this error – overnight – my resale value went from 30k to 10k. If I can remove this error, it goes back up to 30k. So it is obvious that there will be lots of unsuspecting buyers who end up with a car that is going to get the error again – or a potential big problem with the battery – either from a dealer who buys it for 10k and removes the error and sells for 30k, or an individual. This seems like a PR disaster for Tesla – and a horrible situation for consumers. It has already happened multiple times.

Option 2 and 3 are very similar – really just warranty differences. But in the end, if you can get a brand new battery for 4k more, and you plan on keeping the car for a long time, ReCell and Tesla need to do a better job of educating the average consumer (like me) that a reman battery with 8-10 year old cells has a value proposition vs a brand new battery. I fully support ReCell and their mission, because they are doing what Tesla does and beating them on price – and for the right person – it is a great option.

I chose option 4. I hate that I am laying out 19k to basically get back to where I was before the error. But at the same time – with the limited information I have – especially from Tesla – and very limited options – it is the best decision for me. My car is at Tesla right now sitting waiting for the work to be done.

Tesla needs to do a much better job addressing this, and develop a program that has better education and options. Are they trying to get the early cars off the road? Are they trying to get the unlimited supercharging cars off the road? They are getting my battery as part of the 19k repair – and they will remanufacture that and sell it to someone else for 15k. How much work and cost goes in to the remanufacturing? What if it is a circuit board or a few cells or even a module on my battery – that costs them close to nothing in comparison to the 15k they will flip it for – is that fair that I pay 19k on a car that is only worth 30k, and they ALSO get my battery?

Tin foil hat time…. I don’t necessarily believe any of the following to be true – but as Elon likes to say on Twitter – “I am just asking the questions”. What if there was a company that could press a button and send an error to a car fresh out of warranty, and essentially brick it knowing that they then would charge between 15k and 19k to replace it, and in return get a battery that they will sell to the next person they send the error to?

It seems a lot of cars are getting this error just after 8 years. Tesla – isn’t it in your best interest to be more transparent about issues, education, and options? Do you not care that the people this is happening to are the same people who in part built the company to what it is today? I have probably sold 20 people over the years on buying cars, and I have bought a MY. I am not suggesting Tesla owes us anything – but it just seems like a smart business decision to better handle this.

There are lawsuits already out there. Who knows. One persons opinion… This experience has seriously diminished my faith and experience in Tesla. I am biting the bullet – spending 19k on a car that will only be worth 30k when done – but I will always wonder if the BMS_029 error was just a software glitch, a $50 circuit board, a real problem that just happened to occur at 8 years and 3 months – or something much more sinister.

Come on Tesla, you can and need to do better.

"2014 Tesla Model S" by harry_nl is licensed under CC BY-SA 2.0.
Image added for Blog Feed thumbnail

 

[MP3Mike]

There are a couple of right-to-repair Tesla class action lawsuits in federal courts, hopefully, one of them have some positive outcome for owners

I'm not sure how that would help owners in this thread... Maybe open the ability for them to swap packs themselves? But really are they going to be able to find a good pack that much cheaper?

 

[kirkusss]

Meanwhile…

 

[ks1972]

I'm not sure how that would help owners in this thread... Maybe open the ability for them to swap packs themselves? But really are they going to be able to find a good pack that much cheaper?

Maybe, there will be more choices available to consumers.
I had my MCU and ic both go out in the middle of a 3 hour drive, I had my car towed to the SC next day. 2 weeks later I get a message in the app, there was nothing wrong they just reloaded the last software update. Tell me if Tesla made its repair process more accessible to users and third parties, would I have lost access to my car for 2 weeks? For a 90K car, this level of service is unacceptable. I’m wondering if enough people petitioned FTC, they probably would look into making consumers experience better for Tesla (and other) car owners

 

[brainhouston]

Having access to Gateway to change pack config would be a great step for DIY/right to repair community.
This will def open up more options to put the car back on the road

What i really would love to see tho is the ability to change the pack from 16 modules to 15 or 14...
That is the best n cheapest way to put the car back on a road with some range sacrifice.
14 is def a Tesla standard option n should be available since u can't swap modules.
15 might not be officially supported by Tesla but seems to be possible with "secret sauce" according to Recell/wk057..

If those options are widely available then many 3rd party shops will jump on offering HV pack repairs the proper way.
From personal experience, opening/re-sealing the pack is the hardest thing but def doable under $5k. Rewiring for 14/15 modules shouldn't add much cost.

 

[ddb1001]

One current challenge for affected owners is Tesla's pack replacement cost which hopefully will be mitigated in the future.

Tesla's current rate of $15,000 for reman pack to $20,000 for new pack on a current value $25,000-$30,000 2012-14 Model S would probably total the car if similar accident repair costs were handled by an insurance company.

This topic would likely be a mute point if Tesla charged say, $5000, for a replacement pack.

Then there's the option to buy a 2018 MS 100D with less than 50k miles for less than $50k, AND ... it's still under warranty for 3 more yrs (vs 4 more yrs for a pack replacement).

If I was scanning my pack and it looks like it's going bad (but no BMS error yet), I'd sell it and buy a 2018.

 

[brainhouston]

If I was scanning my pack and it looks like it's going bad (but no BMS error yet), I'd sell it and buy a 2018.

Its been brought up before n unfortunately no way to proactively see if its failing...
Also, some will argue its unethical to pawn off the issue to next owner, which is what many "scammers" do now with reset.

Once the general awareness of this issue rises, it will sort itself out.

 

[David_Cary]

Tesla could certainly offer new battery packs with 8 year warranties. Otherwise, the value for a used vehicle is a harder decision to make. If the battery is truly new, why not offer 8 years?
They could also answer the phone or return voicemail from the parts line.
There are a lot more things that Tesla could do to restore confidence on this issue but I am not hopeful.

 

[quickstrike12]

There are many potential upgrade buyers like myself out there, but there is NO incentive for me to upgrade as much as I would enjoy a new car.
I have an 8 year warranty, unlimited charging, unlimited free data, and FSD beta that I only paid a few grand for.
But I would lose all of that with a new car, and most importantly my FSD is not transferable to the new car.
I love my car, and as long it is working fine can’t see me getting rid of it. I would consider someday replacing the battery and keeping it if the situation came down to that. In my mind much cheaper than replacing the car for something close to what I have.
People replace gas engines when they completely quit also at the cost of thousands. Obviously not quite the same thing I realize is in price. New battery NO car payment and many more years of use.
makes sense to me.

 

[father_of_6]

There's always the potential for a future where individual cells can be replaced or bypassed. I still consider today's modern EVs to be in their infancy, and certainly with all of the legacy auto manufacturers going electric, the number of engineering hours going into these problems is beginning to vastly increase.

Just my guess... but I suspect at some point the BMS of an EV will detect a bad cell and just omit it from being used within the pack, akin to SSD hard drives in computers.

 

[ucmndd]

There's always the potential for a future where individual cells can be replaced or bypassed.

So long as EVs are made up of large numbers of ~4 volt lithium cells in parallel/series matrices, this is never going to be a viable solution.

 

[ucmndd]

Tesla could certainly offer new battery packs with 8 year warranties. Otherwise, the value for a used vehicle is a harder decision to make. If the battery is truly new, why not offer 8 years?

To be honest the only reason they offer 8 year warranties on new cars is the federal government requires them to.

Yes, they could offer 8 year warranties on parts replacements voluntarily, but that’s just going to raise the price more.

 

[NV Ray]

To be honest the only reason they offer 8 year warranties on new cars is the federal government requires them to.

Yes, they could offer 8 year warranties on parts replacements voluntarily, but that’s just going to raise the price more.

Good point on possible raising prices.

However, difference between reman and new pack from Tesla is $5000. Both come with the same 4 yr/50k mile warranty. To me paying the extra $5000 for a new pack should warrant the 8 year.

 

[rlsd]

There's always the potential for a future where individual cells can be replaced or bypassed. I still consider today's modern EVs to be in their infancy, and certainly with all of the legacy auto manufacturers going electric, the number of engineering hours going into these problems is beginning to vastly increase.

Just my guess... but I suspect at some point the BMS of an EV will detect a bad cell and just omit it from being used within the pack, akin to SSD hard drives in computers.

If we speak about the future then there are some potential options. The EV manufacturers may offer the option to replace the entire packs with new same size packs or new smaller size packs. Or the manufacturers can leave empty space for 1 or 2 packs then add 1 or 2 new packs later when the range degrades (similar to adding new memory to a computer).

 

[father_of_6]

So long as EVs are made up of large numbers of ~4 volt lithium cells in parallel/series matrices, this is never going to be a viable solution.

I'm no EE, so I'm not saying *how* they'll solve the problem... but clearly having large $15k packs where one individual cell can tank the whole battery is a crappy, unsustainable solution. You're paying $15k because of a $30 part failing.

I just have a hard time believing that someone won't solve this problem. As it stands, it's a fairly significant barrier to EV adoption, and certainly increases the cost of ownership and risk significantly.

Buying a used EV barely even makes sense at mass market. The cost of replacing the battery would be more than what most people will spend on a car. But when an individual cell can just be excommunicated - problem solved.

 

[maximizese]

Good point on possible raising prices.

However, difference between reman and new pack from Tesla is $5000. Both come with the same 4 yr/50k mile warranty. To me paying the extra $5000 for a new pack should warrant the 8 year.

When retail salespeople would push my mom to purchase an extended warranty, she would backtrack and say maybe I don't the product if it needs a warranty. I would agree that Tesla ought to warranty the new battery pack with the same 8yr/125K(or more) with reasonable exceptions, but no one really is pressuring or forcing them to do so. But for me it doesn't give me as much confidence in the company which has me looking at 3rd party battery pack replacements for when the time comes.

 

[dmurphy]

You're paying $15k because of a $30 part failing.

To be fair, the same is true of a gas engine. Something as simple as a $5 timing belt snaps and - smash, there goes the engine. Or a valve spring breaks. Or a wave plate lets loose in your transmission.

So many different ways a tiny part can grenade a traditional powertrain, too.

 

[NV Ray]

When retail salespeople would push my mom to purchase an extended warranty, she would backtrack and say maybe I don't the product if it needs a warranty. I would agree that Tesla ought to warranty the new battery pack with the same 8yr/125K(or more) with reasonable exceptions, but no one really is pressuring or forcing them to do so. But for me it doesn't give me as much confidence in the company which has me looking at 3rd party battery pack replacements for when the time comes.

You're right. On the macro level, here's current Tesla's parts warranty guidelines.

 

[father_of_6]

To be fair, the same is true of a gas engine. Something as simple as a $5 timing belt snaps and - smash, there goes the engine. Or a valve spring breaks. Or a wave plate lets loose in your transmission.

So many different ways a tiny part can grenade a traditional powertrain, too.

Good point. BUT, batteries are *so* much more expensive than engines.

Also there's still a slight difference in that a gas engine has all sorts of complexity and even diagnosing the issue can be very difficult.

With an EV battery, there are thousands of the exact same individual cells. I just refuse to believe that in the long term, someone won't figure out a solution to bypass a single cell instead of replacing the whole pack.

Perhaps the BMS could tell the techs which cell(s) are failing, the pop the bottom plate off the car, access those cells by coordinate and swap them with fresh ones. OR the BMS just learns to stop using them. Whatever that takes - complex switching inside of each module perhaps?

 

[Crutonius]

To be fair, the same is true of a gas engine. Something as simple as a $5 timing belt snaps and - smash, there goes the engine. Or a valve spring breaks. Or a wave plate lets loose in your transmission.

So many different ways a tiny part can grenade a traditional powertrain, too.

That's true to a degree. Auto manufacturers have gone through a lot of trouble to mitigate these things. The timing belt for example has an established minimum lifespan. It's not something that should catch anyone off guard. There's some catastrophic failures that will destroy an engine but there's quite a few different types of failures that are far cheaper to fix than 15k.

As it stands currently a well designed and well maintained engine will outlast any EV battery. That has to change for EVs to be successful in the long term.

 

[kirkusss]

Gas engines can be found at any scrap yard and most shops can replace it.
Batteries can be also found at scrap yards more and more, but how many shops can properly do a swap?