A Model S caught fire while supercharging in Norway (link in Norwegian)

[martinwinlow]

I was surprised to learn here that you guys can leave a petrol nozzle unattended and it still pumps.

In this neck of the wood, we have to keep our hand on the trigger or the pump stops.

Ah, you haven't learnt the old trick to wedge the car's fuel cap into the trigger mechanism to keep it open, then? Pumps here in the UK all appear to have had the standard trigger-hold mechanism disabled (I gather US pumps don't) and so the above trick gets around the disablement. The pumps auto-turn off system still works though - it detects the back pressure on a nearly full tank and cuts off the power to the pump motor.

I don't recommend leaving it unsupervised doing this as the automatic stop system might get foxed and you'll have fuel all over the place in no time. But if you are freezing your nuts off, at least you can put both your hands in your pockets whilst the fuel is pumping! MW

 

[Auzie]

Ah, you haven't learnt the old trick to wedge the car's fuel cap into the trigger mechanism to keep it open, then? Pumps here in the UK all appear to have had the standard trigger-hold mechanism disabled (I gather US pumps don't) and so the above trick gets around the disablement. The pumps auto-turn off system still works though - it detects the back pressure on a nearly full tank and cuts off the power to the pump motor.

I don't recommend leaving it unsupervised doing this as the automatic stop system might get foxed and you'll have fuel all over the place in no time. But if you are freezing your nuts off, at least you can put both your hands in your pockets whilst the fuel is pumping! MW

Pump attendants watch customers at all times. Once they remotely stopped the pump on me because I used my phone while pumping, not for talking, just for reading. Any fiddling is unlikely to be successful.

 

[qwertzy]

Here's some footage

 

[JER]

It seemed to me rather obvious that a free-to-move nozzle dispensing large quantities of a highly flammable liquid needs the equivalent of a "dead man's switch". Given what a great source of ignition static electricity can be and the draft of volatile gasses that come out of the tank while filling, it's also obvious that the user should stay equipotential bonded to the equipment while dispensing; there's no better way of doing that than holding it.

Fuel filler nozzles that lock in the open position are thus a terrible idea. Bodging a more sensible design to do this by wedging something under the lever is an even worse idea. Seriously, please don't do this when you fill up an ICEv. If you're that vulnerable to the cold, wear gloves.

 

[mrdoubleb]

So getting a bit back OT it sure is interesting how that fire ate up the car. As others have pointed out, in previous Model S fires, originating from the main pack, we have seen the fire burst out at the front where it had a path designed for this type of rare faliure. So the fire usually started at the frunk and spread backwards.

The way this one looks though, with the completely melted mid section and still recognizable front, it is almost as if the fire started inside the passenger compartment. An alternative would be some kind of a short at the high voltage circuitry around the back seats (under it or behind it as I recall) that the SC uses to bypass the standard chargers.

 

[jkirkebo]

It seemed to me rather obvious that a free-to-move nozzle dispensing large quantities of a highly flammable liquid needs the equivalent of a "dead man's switch". Given what a great source of ignition static electricity can be and the draft of volatile gasses that come out of the tank while filling, it's also obvious that the user should stay equipotential bonded to the equipment while dispensing; there's no better way of doing that than holding it.

Fuel filler nozzles that lock in the open position are thus a terrible idea. Bodging a more sensible design to do this by wedging something under the lever is an even worse idea. Seriously, please don't do this when you fill up an ICEv. If you're that vulnerable to the cold, wear gloves.

The whole gas nozzle thing is a horrible design. If invented today it would have never been allowed. We really should have moved on to a lockable design with no possibility of leaks. Lock the nozzle to the car, push a button on the pump and do something else while the car is filled up. That would be so much safer.

 

[Mario Kadastik]

Here's some footage

Looking at the start of the video one can see the front end of the car is perfectly intact. From the few battery fires from 2014 we know that a thermal event will vent to the front of the car through special vents. Therefore considering that it's the passenger cabin on fire I'd bet the source was in cabin. Now wether it's something they were transporting or a short that started a cabin fire I don't know, but it's basically new year, what's the chance they had fireworks in the trunk? that'd explain a lot...

 

[wdolson]

It seemed to me rather obvious that a free-to-move nozzle dispensing large quantities of a highly flammable liquid needs the equivalent of a "dead man's switch". Given what a great source of ignition static electricity can be and the draft of volatile gasses that come out of the tank while filling, it's also obvious that the user should stay equipotential bonded to the equipment while dispensing; there's no better way of doing that than holding it.

Fuel filler nozzles that lock in the open position are thus a terrible idea. Bodging a more sensible design to do this by wedging something under the lever is an even worse idea. Seriously, please don't do this when you fill up an ICEv. If you're that vulnerable to the cold, wear gloves.

Some jurisdictions in the US have banned the trigger locks, but Massachusetts reversed that decision as of Jan 1, 2015 (a year ago). They did so after reviewing data that showed there was no difference in the incidence of fires with or without them.

I think it's standard code in all gasoline stations in the US to have an emergency cutoff switch to all pumps located away from the immediate area of the pumps. I've always seen it on the wall of the building (usually a mini-mart). A number of gas station fires have been prevented from going critical by someone at the station or an attendant hitting that switch when a fire starts. I make a point of knowing where the switch is at the stations I normally go to. I'm not too worried about myself, but the world is full of idiots like the guy who tried to burn a spider near his fuel port with a lighter.

In Oregon and New Jersey it's illegal for the public to pump gas, and an employee of the station does it. Usually there is one attendant fueling 10 car or more at once. They would be completely screwed without the trigger locks.

 

[Chickenlittle]

It seemed to me rather obvious that a free-to-move nozzle dispensing large quantities of a highly flammable liquid needs the equivalent of a "dead man's switch". Given what a great source of ignition static electricity can be and the draft of volatile gasses that come out of the tank while filling, it's also obvious that the user should stay equipotential bonded to the equipment while dispensing; there's no better way of doing that than holding it.

Fuel filler nozzles that lock in the open position are thus a terrible idea. Bodging a more sensible design to do this by wedging something under the lever is an even worse idea. Seriously, please don't do this when you fill up an ICEv. If you're that vulnerable to the cold, wear gloves.

About 15 years ago I had one not stop. Had gone into the attached store to but gum and came out to a flood. I paid for a lot of gas. There was a sign posted not to leave car unattended

 

[smac]

Had the car still been attached to the charger, then it would be a different matter as mains electricity may be accessible in the car and the fire hose and water might just conceivably cause a short to earth, possibly including a path through the fireman. But this is so unlikely - for a host of reasons - as to have an equally zero probablility as being electrocuted directly from the battey pack./QUOTE]


I believe it was plugged in and this situation isn't obvious in the Emergency Responders Guide, which complicates matters.

On the initial assessment they would have assumed a fault as a distinct probability and like us they had no idea if it was car or SpC (or faulty phone charger, or cigarette, or ...) I agree the chances of a shock from the pack are zero, and it would be highly unlikely for the vehicle body to go live relative to earth, but feasibly this is possible as there is an electrical path.

Simply letting the car burn whilst controlling the surroundings, tbh doesn't seem inept to me simply prudent, especially if there were other factors such as restricted water supply.


Like you though I agree let's stop the speculation and wait for the official report !

 

[BertL]

With that being said I am a bit concerned about the ability for a person to escape a Tesla that has an electrical related issue. Is there a way I can test escaping a Tesla in this situation? My understanding is that the rear doors have an emergency latch, but it's under the carpet mat.

Check your Owner's Manual. Front doors open by using the same inside door handle -- just keep pulling it beyond where you normally do, and it will manually release the door if there is no power. As you thought, rear doors have a manual release under the front of the left/right seats behind a carpet piece that can be flipped open.

 

[jerry33]

Do the doors open from the inside when 12V is unexpectedly cut off?

Yes. In the front just pull the handle more, in the back, pull the release levers located at the bottom of the seat (by your feet).

 

[Yggdrasill]

Simply letting the car burn whilst controlling the surroundings, tbh doesn't seem inept to me simply prudent, especially if there were other factors such as restricted water supply.

In all probability, they had all the water they could ever need. This is right next to a hotel, and they are required by law to have a fire sprinkler system as well fire hoses.

- - - Updated - - -

Just found some more pictures: ( Tesla tok fyr under lading - TV2.no )

(Something odd with the middle one, but it was like that in the first place.)

 

[smac]

And an earlier one before the fire brigade arrived on scene:

I was mostly intrigued by the white smoke in the background.

 

[JRP3]

Looks fairly obvious that the fire did not start in the battery and probably started in the trunk area.

 

[CatB]

Could the fire have started in the temp Superchargers (not sure how many of them have good cold weather testing, the one in Bethesda certainly hasn't, it's quite sheltered, and generally slow) and created the white smoke?
For those who know the inside of the car (and far more about EE than I), what would it look like if the fire started in the charge port, rather than the trunk?

 

[beewalker]

Model S caught fire while supercharging

http://www.vgtv.no/#!/video/122942/he...

 

[ggr]

Now I'm starting to almost feel a moral need (in the words of fellow forum members) to stand outside fueling stations holding a large sign warning my fellow citizens of the impending danger about to befall them.

'Almost' being the key word. Mostly because I'm aging.

Surely it's because you have better things to do with your time... until the Model X wears off.

 

[WMAC]

Why would he go to a temp with all the permanent chargers sitting there?

 

[Earlian]

And an earlier one before the fire brigade arrived on scene:

View attachment 106212

I was mostly intrigued by the white smoke in the background.

Do you have a source?